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  • Civ 4 the List: List of Threadmasters

    Civ 4 the List: List of Threadmasters

    The List for Civ IV was a project that could not have been accomplished without the hard work and dedication of the many Threadmasters and ideas-finders on the forums. While idea-suggestors are likewise important, I have compiled here a list of the volunteers who went above and beyond the call of duty to take on the task of threadmastering a thread for the List.

    And here they are, alphabetically:

    Asmodean- Former Administrator of the List
    Azazel- Government and Social Engineering
    DarkCloud- Administrator; Civilizations, General, Scenario/Map Editor; List Formatter
    Fosse- The Polls
    Ixnay- Space
    Lajzar- Units
    MattH- Cheats
    Nikolai- AI, Resources, Terrain
    Octavian X- Wonders
    Platypus Rex- Regional and City Menus
    TechWins- Diplomacy
    Trifna- Movement/Supply, User Friendliness

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  • Civ 4 the List: Closing Remarks

    Civ 4 the List: Closing Remarks

    And so now the list has drawn to a close. Thousands of ideas have been culled from the Civ III community at Apolyton. Hopefully the list that we propose here has been easy enough to search through and hopefully it will lead to a great parnership between the players and the corporation.

    Good luck with your struggles and please, keep civving!

    -DarkCloud
    List Administrator

    PS: Here's a link to the Civ III-Ideas List compiled by Apolyton Fans on July 14, 1999 - Civ III List in case you wish to compare it to the current creation

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  • Civ 4 the List: The Polls

    Civ 4 the List: The Polls

    Introduction

    Realizing that some polls about hot topics have already left the top page, and that newcomers to the discussion seldom dig through the back pages in order to find out what's been discussed before, I've decided to compile a list of the Civ 4 List related polls.

    I've abandoned keeping a running talley of votes, as it's a great deal of work that is immediatley outdated, and if you really were interested in the results you would visit the poll and read the comments.

    Now... the polls:

    Stacked vs. Single Unit Combat: The Battle Continues
    Should units be stacked into "armies" that fight and operate as a single unit, or does moving them one at a time provide a boost to strategic considerations?

    Resources: How to Handle
    Is a system with stores and limits on resources a better simulation and more fun, or tedious micromangement?

    From Civ 3 to Civ 4
    More of the same, or a bold new direction for Civ 4?

    Squares, Hexes, Octagons...
    Pick your poison, the traditional Civ Map, traditional War Games map, or something else entirely.

    Eras in Civ 4?
    Is the new era system a great addition, or a stifling hindrance?

    Espionage & Assymetrical Warfare
    Does Bond get his own unit?

    To 2000 AD or Beyond?
    Civ, From the Ancients to the Stars; or Civ, The Whole of Human History.

    {The List} United Nations
    A resolution for change... do you Veto?

    {The List} What Should Happen to Civ Traits?
    Should Civ 4 have homogenous Civs or even more differences?

    Terrain Improvements
    "Give me Workers, or Give me Death" vs "Micromagement Gives me Death."

    Nomads and Chiefdoms
    Should Civ 4 let us wander the great wide open?

    Civ 4 ideas - straights and canals
    Do you want straigts? Or canals?

    Civ 4 idea: Armies instead of units
    Once again, armies or single units?

    Health in Civ 4?
    Should we have sick Civs?

    Emphasis on Age
    Which historical era, if any, should get a boost in Civ 4?

    Civ 4 resistance
    Do you want partisans from Civ 2? Resistors from Civ 3? Or something new for Civ 4?

    Fire and Movement
    How should firepower and movement rates affect combat in Civ 4?

    Stacking Limits Y/N
    Assuming we have stacks, what sorts of stack limits should there be?

    Improved Poll: When should Civilization IV end?
    What is a good time for the game to end?

    Future Techs in Civ 4
    Which future era techs would you like in Civ 4?

    What ARE wonders, anyway?
    Well? What are they?

    Pollution Managers:
    Would you like Pollution Managment added to city screen?

    Tech Transmission


    Here is some food for thought from Civfanatics.

    -Respectfully Compiled by Fosse

    ...
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  • Civ 4 the List: Wonders

    Civ 4 the List: Wonders

    Introduction The concept of the great Wonders of the World in Civ is as old as the series itself. For years, civvers around the world have built Pyramids, Great Libraries, Magellanic Voyages, and trips to the Moon. And, as Civ has gone from I to II to III, wonders have been added, removed, or have changed in some way. With Civ3 came the idea of Small Wonders that each nation had the oppertunity to build individually, further widening the effect of these great projects. As Civ4 looms over the horizon, how will the concept of Wonders of the World evolve further? Summary As you can see, I'm still coming up with ideas already proposed and boiling them down into a list. The links I have found to all threads in this forum pertaining to wonders has been included. If you have some more links, or brand new ideas, please feel free to post them in this thread. Related Threads http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=75460 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=106609 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=107349 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117222 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=107895 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=111317 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=114759 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=115569 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117740 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117222 Table of Contents New Wonder Ideas Changes to Existing Wonders New Wonder Concepts Conclusion The Ideas I. New Wonder Ideas This section goes on the idea that the concept of the ‘wonder’ in Civ will not change from Civ3 to Civ4, that players will still accumulate production in a race with other civs in their attempt to build a wonder. Listed at those specific ideas for a brand new wonder. Statue of Liberty No so much a new wonder, but bringing back a great one from Civ2. A civ with this wonder, in Civ2, could switch to any government type, irregardless of possession of the prerequisite tech, with no anarchy time. In Civ2, it was rendered mostly useless by the fact that one could switch governments without penalty every four turns (the classic Odeo years).Arrian Banaue Rice Terraces >Ancient - allows irrigation on hills (weak, needs more benefit, maybe cut irrigation time or allow hills/forests/mountains to act as irrigated square for the purposes of irrigating next to it).Solomwi Channel Tunnel Modern/Late Industrial - allows ground units to move across single tile straits without ships.Solomwi Machu Picchu Late Ancient - allows settlement on mountains.Solomwi Attitude/Reputation Wonders Bring back some of the old ones from Civ2 that could modify relations with neighbors. (Eiffel, Marco Polo, etc.)Solomi Apian Way (Small Wonder) Originally Roman Empire, huge boon to trade (25-50% for every city connected by it) and unit movement along its length (4 tiles instead of three like other roads). For those who love micromanaging, the Wonder could cost a city less to "produce," but workers would return to existing roads for an additional one or two turns per tile, resulting in a straighter road graphic or a different color. Building the AW from scratch would take 25% longer than normal roads. The benefit would be only on city-to-city connecting roads, not on every city radius tile, but it would also apply to roads to Resources and to your civ's borders in anticipation of expansion by settlements or conquest. The benefit would continue until replaced by Railroads (not the Tech but actual construction). For those who despise micromanaging, give the option to pay more and have the work magically appear when the Wonder is produced. The entire cost would then be based upon X base plus y for so many tiles to link all cities with one road at the time of the Wonder's completion, meaning if you add more cities while in production, the cost continues to go up - but again, you dodge the microM. The Round Table (Great Wonder) A la King Arthur, this would make representative forms of government faster to discover and to implement with shorter or nonexistent anarchy. Lewis & Clark (SW) This would double Movement Points of all units exploring black-out tiles, except when barbarians have been uncovered, so you'd have to deal with them normally. Speed wouldn't be affected by another civ's units. Pony Express (SW) Faster communication improves Science and Culture and would reduce corruption in far away cities on the same continent. It would also speed up building the first Road between each city. Any additional city tiles worked for roads would still take the normal time. International Red Cross (GW) This would be a major diplomatic boost, as well as better treatment for captured units and faster healing for battle-wounded units. Recover...
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  • Civ 4 the List: User Friendliness/ The Manual / Help Files

    Civ 4 the List: User Friendliness/ The Manual / Help Files

    Introduction User Friendliness- what makes the game easy to play. The Manual- the guides to Civ I and II provided historical information and pull-out charts that gave the game character- will Civ IV have such things? Or will the manual merely be a cheap on-line PDF? Help Files- how easily can the owners of the game find their way around it once accessing the game itself? Summary While this wasnt the most glamours of sections, it is in some ways the most important because without easy accessibility, Civilization would be both unfun and impossible to play. Many ideas which could fall in this area were included in other sections, thus its sparseness can be explained by the universality in where these help information can be put in. Table of Contents The Ideas Conclusion The Ideas Historical Garbage: Forget the historical stuff about units. Most people never read it and it doesn't enhance gameplay.-Kuciwalker (It should be noted, however that a significant group of civvers actually appreciates these historical things and the fact that they are in the game makes it more educational and acceptable to teachers and parents trying to teach their children through learning. It also makes the game more 'intellectual' and provides a good reference.)-DarkCloud Generating Civlopedia Entries IN THE EDITOR:: Make it easy to generate Civpedia entries IN THE EDITOR.-Kuciwalker A "?" to click on and point at elements: I propose that somewhere at the top of the screen there would be a litte interrogation mark to click on. If you click on it, there will be a bunch of very visible interrogation marks each place on the present screen you can get a little text explaining how it works, what it is and everything that's nice to know. This would help many, without even bringing the need of a complete tutorial (though a tutorial can always be nice, and it could use the information put with this interrogation marks system).-Trifna "Hovered on" information: I also think that there should be, in the options tablet, a checkbox that when clicked, will cause the mouse button (when it's hovering over an object) to describe the object in a short description-DarkCloud Improved file save/retrieve: Would it be too much to ask to slightly improve the file save and file retrieve dialog boxes? I feel like I'm back in Windows 3.x with the spartan [...] file operation box. What I would like to see is a page ripped from Microsoft's book on this. First, make the box a little bit bigger. If I'm doing some file operation, go ahead and cover most of the screen. It's not like I'm playing the game while opening/closing a game. Second, I need to see some properties information displayed regarding my file saves. A small thumbnail of my map would be nice. Also, some information like: When was the file created (game started) Date last saved How many civs active Current scores/perhaps a histograph? Whether the game is SP, MP or PBEM Speaking of PBEM. Could a seperate interface be developed for keeping MP and PBEM games organized? I create seperate folders, but I think with minimal effort, a little nicer front end could be developed to make it easy to store, organize and launch games.One last thing...the manual makes it a point to say that it doesn't store email addresses. This is a pretty simple thing that would help the player tremendously.-Shogun Gunner Using the standard Windows open-file box: Why not use the standard Windows open-file box, with an extra part to display some info about the actual savegame you have selected?-Kuciwalker Mini-map, and opening a game in one click: A mini-map thumbnail is essential.I'd also like a way to open games with one click from the main menu.-MattH For a printed manual: The manual should be printed, not digital! I find it much nicer to be able to paw through actual paper.-MattH ...Digital is transient... paper is for all time-DarkCloud Being able to pause at any time: Be able to pause the game in the middle of anything it's doing to look at settings, etc. When it's cycling through automated or AI units. Be able to change orders in the middle. Be able to more easily observe what the AI is doing before it's finished.-Brent Conclusion This section is pretty explanatory and compact, but basically people want ways to easily determine what different sorts of data is on the map and to easily plunge into a game of civ....
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  • Civ 4 the List: Units

    Civ 4 the List: Units

    Introduction This is meant as a discussion of two principal aspects of the game: what units should appear in the game, and the effects of the various unit attribute flags. Of secondary importance is finding a way to integrate unit statistics with whatever combat method is chosen; it is generally agreed that balancing stats will depend a lot on how combat (stacked vs 1:1 vs other) is implemented. Summary One recurring theme across the various lists for each generation of civ was for a unit workshop, similar to smac. I believe this would be bad for civ. While it could reflect the historical range of units if constrained with a uitably detailed complex ruleset, this rulset would be unreasonably complex for a game, forcing an extra level of management. In addition, it would make it extremely hard to mod the graphics, and all but impossible to create mods with fantasy units. Most people agree that civ3 had far too few units in the game. The big jumps in the capabilities at each critical tech gave an overwhelming advantage to teh tech leader, as well as giving a somewhat disjointed view of history. With assymetric units, there is clearly a strong desire for these functions to be implemented. The main debate is on whether or not units are the best means of implementing these functions. This a decision that should be made on a group by group basis. There is very little desire for religious units or lawyers, but worker functions are evenly split on whether units are the best method to put them in the game. Related Threads Civ4 Idea: Armies instead of Units Stacked vs. Single Unit Combat - The Battle Continues Some sort of unit design allowed? Civ4 Units Table of Contents 2.0 Miscellaneous Thoughts 5.0 Units Conclusion The Ideas Organized by: Lajzar...
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  • Civ 4 the List: Terrain & Terrain Improvements 2

    Civ 4 the List: Terrain & Terrain Improvements 2

    Table of Contents 1 - The Terrain 2 - Terrain improvements 3 - Worker and PW ideas 4 - Transportation over the map 5 - Cities 6 - Pollution 7 - Mini-map 8 - Climate and weather Conclusion The Ideas 3 - Worker and PW ideas 3.1 - More worker jobs I like both the CtP and CivIII version of terrain improvements, but just for the sake of arguement, I will be going from the perspective of CivIII. I want to either be able to add worker jobs or already have them in. Examples: Loved the ability to Irragate a second time in CivII. Give this back. (Posted by donegeal) 3.2 - A hybrid system Fort tile improvements, I'd like to see a hybrid system. In this system, tile improvements such as irrigation and mining done within your borders would be handled by a public works type system. I don't want exactly what was had in CtP, though. I'd rather a system where you would start an irrigation project for an entire city, and it would take a lot of money/shields to produce, and once completed, would require a good deal of maintainence. However, once you get outside the land that is technically yours, and you want to build roads, rails, colonies, and forts and such, it would require the use of workers. This way in the early game you can still have fun building up your civilization, and in the late game you don't have to worry about the swarms of workers going around to cleanup this polution or irrigate that tile. (Posted by Lorizael) I like that... I'd actually like to see a combination use of workers/PW if you build Tile improvements outside of your city radius (not national borders), and PW used inside those radius. (Posted by hexagonian) 3.3 - PW ideas 3.3.1 - Public Works, not workers PUBLIC WORKS : exactly like in CTP. (Posted by J-S) 3.3.2 - Public works director How about a Public Works Director that works by automating workers? You could paint down roads like in Sim City, and workers would automatically start building them... or you could give a worker a direct order, and she would finish that project before going back to the Public Works Director for new instructions. Each city could have a Public Works Submenu which would show three graphs of the maximum possible Food/Shields/Commerce if you optimized for each of those. So at a glance you can see - "The most Food I could possibly get out of this city is X, and the most shields is Y", etc. Then there would be a slider where you set the percentage priority of each of those. When workers have no specific tasks given them directly nor any specific improvements from the Public Works Director (like roads or colonies, etc.) a worker will start upgrading the city radius based on the percentages you've chosen. If you go 50% Food 25% Shields 25% Commerce, the worker will build 2 food improvements, then one shield improvement, then 1 commerce. This system would be flexible enough to allow you to micromanage in the early stages of the game when its most important, then forget about them later on, yet still have the ability to direct them if you want to. It would also be a lot more precise than the current automation of workers. And it preserves the ability to take slave workers to improve your civ's production. (Posted by wrylachlan) 3.3.3 - PW costs something Have public works cost something. Gold, food, shields, whatever floats your boat (I prefer gold though, because there is no clutter like a "public works reserve" à la CtP). Such a system can be implemented either in a CTP-ish system or in a Civish system (featuring workers): the key is that each individual public work costs something when performed.(Posted by Spiffor) 3.3.4 - A possible PW system idea You can build anywhere in your territory, and anywhere that you have a military presence. Improvements outside your territory cost more, and there is a third price tier for improvements inside hostile nations. The price difference is reflected both in construction time and in resource points needed. If an improvement is pillaged while under construction, the pillaging player gains half the base construction cost of that improvement. This reflects the "capturing workers" aspect of civ3. The interface is a basic click on the palette item, then click on the tile where you want it to go. An option to paint an area (think simcity zoning) with an improvement could be done, but I don't expect it to be necessary. PW are paid for out of a pool, similar to CTP. I'm not overly fussy about whether this pool comes from gold or shields, but I suspect shields gives the more interesting opportunity cost. Once you place the order for an improvement to be build, an "under construction" icon appears on the screen. This icon could either be a half-finished image of the improvement, or an animated worker. The improvement appears a few turns later, depending on th...
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  • Civ 4 the List: Terrain & Terrain Improvements

    Civ 4 the List: Terrain & Terrain Improvements

    Introduction Terrain; the environment of our civ. Terrain improvements; the ways civ alters its environment. Here; the place to find ideas on how this should be done in Civ4!-List Threadmaster Nikolai Summary In the start of the discussion, the "terrain" and the "terrain improvements" parts of the list was most debated. People are mostly agreeing on the need of a new and vastly improved terrain/map, but when it comes to the actual kind of new terrains, the ideas are splitting. Later in the discussion process, the old public works vs. workers discussion arose. Pages after pages of this discussion filled the threads, and many ideas was proposed and debated. The third large discussion point, was railroads and transportation. Most people think that it have to be changed. Infinite movement for example, is not particularly popular everywhere, one might say. Related Threads Radical Ideas Spherical World Things to Borrow from Other Games Squares, Hexes, Octagons... Terrain Improvements? The design decision that can have a huge impact Growth - should it be related to food? Customizable Auto Workers What's in Civ4. Just the facts, ma'am Civ IV will have a 3D map! Discussion of possibilities Railroads? A vision of cIV Terrain:Public Works System - Ideas Terrain:Workers System - Ideas Table of Contents 1 - The Terrain 2 - Terrain improvements 3 - Worker and PW ideas 4 - Transportation over the map 5 - Cities 6 - Pollution 7 - Mini-map 8 - Climate and weather Conclusion The Ideas 1 - The terrain 1.1 - Harsher environment It should never be possible to irrigate desert or tundra EVER. Most military units that cross them should die, as should be the case with mountains and jungles. Forests and jungles should create plains when cut down. Irrigation should be curtailed. (Posted By Sandman) Agreementos with the 'harsher environment' idea, but if it's implemented, better make sure that the player is guaranteed at least a stretch of 'nice' environment, with room for 4-5 cities - otherwise it'll easily get really friggin' annoying. (Posted by Stefu) 1.2 - Terrain technology 1.2.1 - Back to SMAC Go back toward SMAC. have certain characteristics like elevation, ruggedness, trees, grass, rocks, sand, moisture, temparature. Treat north and south poles as in Civ2. Include fungus terrain characteristic in editor. (Posted By Brent) 1.2.2 - Spherical world Spheric world!!If it would be done well and nice, it could really bring some immersion, hype and a bit more sense (not including the graphics ). (Posted by trifna) I am strongly in favour of a civilization game with a spherical map. The reasons why a spherical map would be an improvement include: 1. A spherical map would be more realistic. The polar areas could be fully implemented, withn the possibility of nuclear exchanges over the poles, for example.2. A spherical map would reinvigorate the game, presenting a new challenge to long-time civ players, who've grown accustomed to playing on a flat map. No other grand-strategy game has used a spherical map to my knowledge, and if civ doesn't get it, some other game will.3. A spherical map would be aesthetically pleasing, particularly if it was combined with a renewed investment in the terrain graphics. (Posted by Sandman) 1.2.3 - Triangular/octagonal pixels Triangular Pixels! Or octagonal to increase the accuracy of the modeling and to maximize strategic assault patterns. (Posted by DarkCloud 1.2.4 - Hexgrid I would support a hexgrid.With a hexgrid, some adjustments would need to be made as there would only be 18 tiles in a city radius. Here are some suggestions (these suggestions generally have to deal with the population explosion of the late 19th/20th centuries that is so poorly represented in Civ I, II and III): Either when a certian tech is gained or when a city reaches a predetermined population (ie: 1-6 = town, 7-12 = city, 13+ = Metropololis) the city expands to a third ring of tiles (anything more than 3, like in CTPII, I think would be too much). The increase in available tiles will reflect in a larger population and thus more accurately represent the modern age. (Posted by donegeal) We can also look at the possibility of hexagons with four-sided figures. (Posted by Trifna) 1.2.5 - Multiple level map How about a multiple level map, like ToT, so there is a level for land, a level for undersea, a level for orbit, and so on. 1.3 - Suburbs 1.3.1 - Suburbs in a hexgrid [On the discussion about using a hexgrid]However, since most Civ players aren't going to space their cities 6 hexs apart to take advantage of the additonal hex ring, I would also like to see the worker job of "Build Suburb" added. As I stated in another thread, the action would consume...
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  • Civ 4 the List: Space

    Civ 4 the List: Space

    Introduction Space - the final frontier. While the development of space exploration is incredibly recent looking at the span of human history, it is also become profoundly important. How should Civilization 4 handle space? Summary One of mankind's great achievements in the modern era, space flight has played an important role in shaping the world - from satellites to space stations. Space has always played a role in Civilization, ranging from constructing the Apollo Program to building a spaceship to Alpha Centauri. What directions should Civ 4 take space in? Related Threads The Moon Table of Contents 1. The Space Race 2. Satellites 3. Diplomacy in Space 4. Military in Space 5. Space Colonization Conclusion The Ideas 1. The Space Race 1.1 Multi-tiered space race In all the other civ games, the space portion of the game happens when you research "space flight" and build the apollo program. Then you immediately jump into building a large spaceship. I was thinking that the atmosphere could be improved by adding details and such - How about while you are building the Apollo wonder, by making progress it pops up notifications for you and your opponents? For example at 20% completion you might get the message "Your civilization has launched a manmade object into space", at 40% "You have put a man into space", at 60% "You have put a man in orbit", and eventually "You have put a man on the moon". Something like this would, I think, make the space race actually seem a bit more like a realistic space race without necissarily making things more complicated. (ixnay) 1.2 Happiness and the space race The space race should have an influence on happiness and vice versa (if another, enemy nation is winning the space race) (Herzog) 2. Satellites 2.1 Types of Satellites Research Satellites: Whether it's inward (weather & habitat monitoring), or outward (Hubble and Chandra space telescopes), satellites are important for research. They could give a set amount or a small percentage boost to research. (Laszlo) Commercial Satellites: Bonuses to commerce through better communications, GPS technology, etc. Prospecting can reveal new supplies of resources like oil and better managing of resources like fisheries and farms (bonuses limited to bonus tiles, aka - whales, spice, etc). (Laszlo) Television Satellites: Broadcasting over the world over, satellites help spread the owner's culture. The U.S. spends money to ensure outside news coverage in China and Middle Eastern countries. They can't do anything to stop the "propoganda" other than ineffectual bans on satellite dishes. (Laszlo) 2.1.1 Spy Satellites I think a new unit we could have in the modern age is spy satelites. They would be based in your capital (and move with your capital-essentially indestructible until your civ got wiped out) and they would simply give you the ability to see one large map area and all the units moving there (like a permanent recon mission, with a large field of vision). (GePap) If not revealing the whole world, spy satellites would at least monitor a large swath of it. Perhaps launching several would allow the civ near-complete coverage. I think that they should be one-time use like missiles, but with an actual lifetime--say, 20-30 turns. They could even have a failure rate at launch that decreases with experience. They wouldn't in fact have to be actual units once you pick their placement, though for the sake of familiarity it might be better to keep it as one.Increasing resolution. Starts out at city and terrain scale, moves up to include roads and rail, eventually allows individual unit tracking. Happens automatically as technology matures (time and experience with building). (Laszlo) Remove the fog of war on a selected area. The more satellites you have the more fog you can remove. I wouldn't reveal all units though. I think that some units should remain invisible to satellites, or units remain invisible in certain terrains. Infantry units would barely be visible to spy satellites, and units hidden in jungle would be nigh on impossible to spot aswell. (Dauphin) Maybe it could reveal all exposed units, while units in cities and fortresses would have limited exposure (say only units that have moved into it this turn and the first unit garrisoned). (Robovski) In cities it should reveal most, if not all, city improvements. (Dauphin) Display all units on the ground ina certain area, even in a City. That is a HUGE benefit and more than enough reason to have such a unit. The limitations should be that it is expensive and late in the tech tree, and you assign it one spot on the map, and that is it- so that you could not reuse a single satelite over and over. (GePap) 2.2 Satellite Wonders The Terrestrial Planet Finder could be required before setting off a colony ship. Wouldn't want to spend all that t...
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  • Civ 4 the List: Scenario / Map Editor

    Civ 4 the List: Scenario / Map Editor

    Introduction Here's the Scenario/Map Editor section of the list; dealing with all modability and customizability and rules editing for the Map Editor as well as all possible Game Modifications and Scenarios and additions that might be added to Civ IV. Thanks! List Threadmaster DarkCloud Summary Basically, the major desire of the scenario creating community is for Civilization IV to be more Scenario-building friendly than Civ III. One of the major desires was for the limitations on population limits and map size to be raised or destroyed altogether since in these days of 3 GHZ+ computers and computers with 512MB+ RAM, most computers can handle that sort of power.Therefore, most people desired "more" customizability and "more" power. Related Threads {The List} Scenario/Map Editor, DarkCloud Civ2 Editor style or Civ3?, Nuclear Master Table of Contents 1.0.0 The Scenario Editor 2.0.0 Scripting Language 3.0.0 Map Editor 4.0.0 Maps 5.0.0 Scenarios 6.0.0 Resources 7.0.0 Unit/Wonder/Improvement Modability 8.0.0 Editor Support 9.0.0 Civlopedia Conclusion The Ideas 1.0.0 The Scenario Editor 1.1.0 Basic Design Philosophy *I think the civ2 editor works better for creating scenarios, because you could basically make any concievable starting position, but it's not as good for editing rules and stuff. They should be hybridized somehow. Perhaps there should be a rules editor, and then you can load a rules file and make the scenario in a civ2 style editor.-Jaguar Warrior 1.2.0 The Cheat Mode *The Game needs a Cheat-Mode option for easy modification either "in game" (a la Civ II) or in a special scenario-editor image screen.*The Cheat Mode should also be included in the regular game as a 'sandbox mode' for newbies or people who enjoy to cheat.-Jaguar Warrior 1.3.0 No Limits *It would be very nice indeed if the various limits (maximum city population, maximum number of units, maximum map size, maximum number of civilization, maximum number of unit types, maximum number of terrain types, etc.) were set very, very high indeed. (ed- Especially since computers nowadays are much more powerful than computers in the past.)These limits can hamper the creation of scenarios, partucularly large scenarios - I certainly had that problem in Civilization 2 - The Gold Edition.-Roman 1.4.0 In-Game Editor *In Civilization 3, I never even bothered creating scenarios. The out of game editor was actually a major turn-off, since it is frequently much easier to create scenarios through a combination of playing and editing/modification than through an editor alone. Hence, I would strongly recommend an in-game scenario editor for Civ IV.-Roman 1.5.0 Flags *I want to be able to make national flags for nations in scenarios-POTUS 1.6.0 Tierd Maps *I'd really like if they put back the ability to play on multi-tiered maps, like in Civ2ToT, although it might not be realistic to have them permanently fixed together (teleporting from one hex brings you automatically to the same numbered hex on any map you can go to); but perhaps there can be designated 'link-points' between the maps like in Sim City 2004 or in Heroes of Might and Magic III?-Jawn Henry 1.7.0 Altering Maps Slightly Still Allows Players to get in Hall of Fame *Be able to alter city lists but still be in the hall of fame.-Brent 1.8.0 Turn Off Features in the Game *Be able to turn off major features of the game, like military leaders, continental congress, religion, combat, cities, technological advancement, wonders, etc. Turning off military leaders would be good for civs with limited available names.-Brent 1.9.0 Minieditor use allows the Hall of Fame *Have a separate minieditor where you can only change things that will not affect the fairness of the game, like giving one civ a combination of characteristics that a different one has anyway; city lists; barbarian tribe lists, graphics for rulers, cities, and the palace, etc. Things that would not disallow the Hall of Fame. Have it as a minieditor so you can set things to use more than once, but also be able to set these options in an optional extended startup. *altering graphics, unit names, and improvement names. Also be able to rename a type of improvement ingame when you build the first one, and be able to rename an entire type of unit anytime ingame.-Brent 1.10.0 Summary Screen in the Editor One thing I keep thinking of is geared more for the editor than the game. I would like to have a summary screen in the editor that breaks down the vital stats for the map I am working on with info such as: type and number of each resource and luxury number of civs and number of starting locations assigned % of land to water or even better % of terrain type (15% desert, 30% grassland, etc) -Argos65987 1....
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  • Civ 4 the List: List of Threadmasters
    by DarkCloud

    The List for Civ IV was a project that could not have been accomplished without the hard work and dedication of the many Threadmasters and ideas-finders on the forums. While idea-suggestors are likewise important, I have compiled here a list of the volunteers who went above and beyond the call of duty to take on the task of threadmastering a thread for the List.

    And here they are, alphabetically:

    Asmodean- Former Administrator of the List
    Azazel- Government and Social Engineering
    DarkCloud- Administrator; Civilizations, General, Scenario/Map Editor; List Formatter
    Fosse- The Polls
    Ixnay- Space
    Lajzar- Units
    MattH- Cheats
    Nikolai- AI, Resources, Terrain
    Octavian X- Wonders
    Platypus Rex- Regional and City Menus
    TechWins- Diplomacy
    Trifna- Movement/Supply, User Friendliness

    August 31, 2012, 18:13
  • Civ 4 the List: Closing Remarks
    by DarkCloud

    And so now the list has drawn to a close. Thousands of ideas have been culled from the Civ III community at Apolyton. Hopefully the list that we propose here has been easy enough to search through and hopefully it will lead to a great parnership between the players and the corporation.

    Good luck with your struggles and please, keep civving!

    -DarkCloud
    List Administrator

    PS: Here's a link to the Civ III-Ideas List compiled by Apolyton Fans on July 14, 1999 - Civ III List in case you wish to compare it to the current creation

    August 31, 2012, 18:05
  • Civ 4 the List: The Polls
    by Fosse

    Introduction

    Realizing that some polls about hot topics have already left the top page, and that newcomers to the discussion seldom dig through the back pages in order to find out what's been discussed before, I've decided to compile a list of the Civ 4 List related polls.

    I've abandoned keeping a running talley of votes, as it's a great deal of work that is immediatley outdated, and if you really were interested in the results you would visit the poll and read the comments.

    Now... the polls:

    Stacked vs. Single Unit Combat: The Battle Continues
    Should units be stacked into "armies" that fight and operate as a single unit, or does moving them one at a time provide a boost to strategic considerations?

    Resources: How to Handle
    Is a system with stores and limits on resources a better simulation and more fun, or tedious micromangement?

    From Civ 3 to Civ 4
    More of the same, or a bold new direction for Civ 4?

    Squares, Hexes, Octagons...
    Pick your poison, the traditional Civ Map, traditional War Games map, or something else entirely.

    Eras in Civ 4?
    Is the new era system a great addition, or a stifling hindrance?

    Espionage & Assymetrical Warfare
    Does Bond get his own unit?

    To 2000 AD or Beyond?
    Civ, From the Ancients to the Stars; or Civ, The Whole of Human History.

    {The List} United Nations
    A resolution for change... do you Veto?

    {The List} What Should Happen to Civ Traits?
    Should Civ 4 have homogenous Civs or even more differences?

    Terrain Improvements
    "Give me Workers, or Give me Death" vs "Micromagement Gives me Death."

    Nomads and Chiefdoms
    Should Civ 4 let us wander the great wide open?

    Civ 4 ideas - straights and canals
    Do you want straigts? Or canals?

    Civ 4 idea: Armies instead of units
    Once again, armies or single units?

    Health in Civ 4?
    Should we have sick Civs?

    Emphasis on Age
    Which historical era, if any, should get a boost in Civ 4?

    Civ 4 resistance
    Do you want partisans from Civ 2? Resistors from Civ 3? Or something new for Civ 4?

    Fire and Movement
    How should firepower and movement rates affect combat in Civ 4?

    Stacking Limits Y/N
    Assuming we have stacks, what sorts of stack limits should there be?

    Improved Poll: When should Civilization IV end?
    What is a good time for the game to end?

    Future Techs in Civ 4
    Which future era techs would you like in Civ 4?

    What ARE wonders, anyway?
    Well? What are they?

    Pollution Managers:
    Would you like Pollution Managment added to city screen?

    Tech Transmission


    Here is some food for thought from Civfanatics.

    -Respectfully Compiled by Fosse

    ...
    August 31, 2012, 18:03
  • Civ 4 the List: Wonders
    by Fosse
    Introduction The concept of the great Wonders of the World in Civ is as old as the series itself. For years, civvers around the world have built Pyramids, Great Libraries, Magellanic Voyages, and trips to the Moon. And, as Civ has gone from I to II to III, wonders have been added, removed, or have changed in some way. With Civ3 came the idea of Small Wonders that each nation had the oppertunity to build individually, further widening the effect of these great projects. As Civ4 looms over the horizon, how will the concept of Wonders of the World evolve further? Summary As you can see, I'm still coming up with ideas already proposed and boiling them down into a list. The links I have found to all threads in this forum pertaining to wonders has been included. If you have some more links, or brand new ideas, please feel free to post them in this thread. Related Threads http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=75460 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=106609 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=107349 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117222 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=107895 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=111317 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=114759 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=115569 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117740 http://apolyton.net/showthread.php?threadid=117222 Table of Contents New Wonder Ideas Changes to Existing Wonders New Wonder Concepts Conclusion The Ideas I. New Wonder Ideas This section goes on the idea that the concept of the ‘wonder’ in Civ will not change from Civ3 to Civ4, that players will still accumulate production in a race with other civs in their attempt to build a wonder. Listed at those specific ideas for a brand new wonder. Statue of Liberty No so much a new wonder, but bringing back a great one from Civ2. A civ with this wonder, in Civ2, could switch to any government type, irregardless of possession of the prerequisite tech, with no anarchy time. In Civ2, it was rendered mostly useless by the fact that one could switch governments without penalty every four turns (the classic Odeo years).Arrian Banaue Rice Terraces >Ancient - allows irrigation on hills (weak, needs more benefit, maybe cut irrigation time or allow hills/forests/mountains to act as irrigated square for the purposes of irrigating next to it).Solomwi Channel Tunnel Modern/Late Industrial - allows ground units to move across single tile straits without ships.Solomwi Machu Picchu Late Ancient - allows settlement on mountains.Solomwi Attitude/Reputation Wonders Bring back some of the old ones from Civ2 that could modify relations with neighbors. (Eiffel, Marco Polo, etc.)Solomi Apian Way (Small Wonder) Originally Roman Empire, huge boon to trade (25-50% for every city connected by it) and unit movement along its length (4 tiles instead of three like other roads). For those who love micromanaging, the Wonder could cost a city less to "produce," but workers would return to existing roads for an additional one or two turns per tile, resulting in a straighter road graphic or a different color. Building the AW from scratch would take 25% longer than normal roads. The benefit would be only on city-to-city connecting roads, not on every city radius tile, but it would also apply to roads to Resources and to your civ's borders in anticipation of expansion by settlements or conquest. The benefit would continue until replaced by Railroads (not the Tech but actual construction). For those who despise micromanaging, give the option to pay more and have the work magically appear when the Wonder is produced. The entire cost would then be based upon X base plus y for so many tiles to link all cities with one road at the time of the Wonder's completion, meaning if you add more cities while in production, the cost continues to go up - but again, you dodge the microM. The Round Table (Great Wonder) A la King Arthur, this would make representative forms of government faster to discover and to implement with shorter or nonexistent anarchy. Lewis & Clark (SW) This would double Movement Points of all units exploring black-out tiles, except when barbarians have been uncovered, so you'd have to deal with them normally. Speed wouldn't be affected by another civ's units. Pony Express (SW) Faster communication improves Science and Culture and would reduce corruption in far away cities on the same continent. It would also speed up building the first Road between each city. Any additional city tiles worked for roads would still take the normal time. International Red Cross (GW) This would be a major diplomatic boost, as well as better treatment for captured units and faster healing for battle-wounded units. Recover...
    August 31, 2012, 17:58
  • Civ 4 the List: User Friendliness/ The Manual / Help Files
    by Trifna
    Introduction User Friendliness- what makes the game easy to play. The Manual- the guides to Civ I and II provided historical information and pull-out charts that gave the game character- will Civ IV have such things? Or will the manual merely be a cheap on-line PDF? Help Files- how easily can the owners of the game find their way around it once accessing the game itself? Summary While this wasnt the most glamours of sections, it is in some ways the most important because without easy accessibility, Civilization would be both unfun and impossible to play. Many ideas which could fall in this area were included in other sections, thus its sparseness can be explained by the universality in where these help information can be put in. Table of Contents The Ideas Conclusion The Ideas Historical Garbage: Forget the historical stuff about units. Most people never read it and it doesn't enhance gameplay.-Kuciwalker (It should be noted, however that a significant group of civvers actually appreciates these historical things and the fact that they are in the game makes it more educational and acceptable to teachers and parents trying to teach their children through learning. It also makes the game more 'intellectual' and provides a good reference.)-DarkCloud Generating Civlopedia Entries IN THE EDITOR:: Make it easy to generate Civpedia entries IN THE EDITOR.-Kuciwalker A "?" to click on and point at elements: I propose that somewhere at the top of the screen there would be a litte interrogation mark to click on. If you click on it, there will be a bunch of very visible interrogation marks each place on the present screen you can get a little text explaining how it works, what it is and everything that's nice to know. This would help many, without even bringing the need of a complete tutorial (though a tutorial can always be nice, and it could use the information put with this interrogation marks system).-Trifna "Hovered on" information: I also think that there should be, in the options tablet, a checkbox that when clicked, will cause the mouse button (when it's hovering over an object) to describe the object in a short description-DarkCloud Improved file save/retrieve: Would it be too much to ask to slightly improve the file save and file retrieve dialog boxes? I feel like I'm back in Windows 3.x with the spartan [...] file operation box. What I would like to see is a page ripped from Microsoft's book on this. First, make the box a little bit bigger. If I'm doing some file operation, go ahead and cover most of the screen. It's not like I'm playing the game while opening/closing a game. Second, I need to see some properties information displayed regarding my file saves. A small thumbnail of my map would be nice. Also, some information like: When was the file created (game started) Date last saved How many civs active Current scores/perhaps a histograph? Whether the game is SP, MP or PBEM Speaking of PBEM. Could a seperate interface be developed for keeping MP and PBEM games organized? I create seperate folders, but I think with minimal effort, a little nicer front end could be developed to make it easy to store, organize and launch games.One last thing...the manual makes it a point to say that it doesn't store email addresses. This is a pretty simple thing that would help the player tremendously.-Shogun Gunner Using the standard Windows open-file box: Why not use the standard Windows open-file box, with an extra part to display some info about the actual savegame you have selected?-Kuciwalker Mini-map, and opening a game in one click: A mini-map thumbnail is essential.I'd also like a way to open games with one click from the main menu.-MattH For a printed manual: The manual should be printed, not digital! I find it much nicer to be able to paw through actual paper.-MattH ...Digital is transient... paper is for all time-DarkCloud Being able to pause at any time: Be able to pause the game in the middle of anything it's doing to look at settings, etc. When it's cycling through automated or AI units. Be able to change orders in the middle. Be able to more easily observe what the AI is doing before it's finished.-Brent Conclusion This section is pretty explanatory and compact, but basically people want ways to easily determine what different sorts of data is on the map and to easily plunge into a game of civ....
    August 31, 2012, 17:55
  • Civ 4 the List: Units
    by lajzar
    Introduction This is meant as a discussion of two principal aspects of the game: what units should appear in the game, and the effects of the various unit attribute flags. Of secondary importance is finding a way to integrate unit statistics with whatever combat method is chosen; it is generally agreed that balancing stats will depend a lot on how combat (stacked vs 1:1 vs other) is implemented. Summary One recurring theme across the various lists for each generation of civ was for a unit workshop, similar to smac. I believe this would be bad for civ. While it could reflect the historical range of units if constrained with a uitably detailed complex ruleset, this rulset would be unreasonably complex for a game, forcing an extra level of management. In addition, it would make it extremely hard to mod the graphics, and all but impossible to create mods with fantasy units. Most people agree that civ3 had far too few units in the game. The big jumps in the capabilities at each critical tech gave an overwhelming advantage to teh tech leader, as well as giving a somewhat disjointed view of history. With assymetric units, there is clearly a strong desire for these functions to be implemented. The main debate is on whether or not units are the best means of implementing these functions. This a decision that should be made on a group by group basis. There is very little desire for religious units or lawyers, but worker functions are evenly split on whether units are the best method to put them in the game. Related Threads Civ4 Idea: Armies instead of Units Stacked vs. Single Unit Combat - The Battle Continues Some sort of unit design allowed? Civ4 Units Table of Contents 2.0 Miscellaneous Thoughts 5.0 Units Conclusion The Ideas Organized by: Lajzar...
    August 31, 2012, 17:52
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