Tweet
No, because people didn't understand Kerry's positions on the issues.
Kerry did a bad job at selling himself.
-
And whose fault is that?
Kerry did a bad job at selling himself. -
First trimester embryos=not human, pay attention to my stances.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
What is harmful?Originally posted by Drachasor
You don't understand the left. They are devoted to people being able to do what they want so long as it doesn't harm another person.
Is it not wrong to kill another person for convenience sake?
Is that the only thing you have? It is more than just about abortion.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
I don't think he did a horrible job, just Bush did a really good job misrepresenting Kerry.Originally posted by Japher
And whose fault is that?
Kerry did a bad job at selling himself.
I for one think that Democracy needs people to be voting in a decently informed manner, such as knowing where the Candidates stand on the issues. As such great misunderstandings are not a trivial matter.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
If I understood correctly, Kerry was in favor of states deciding the gay marriage issue themselves. He would be neutral on how they decided and would not be against states banning gay marriage.Originally posted by Drachasor
No, because people didn't understand Kerry's positions on the issues.
-Drachasorhttp://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
-
First trimester embryos=not human, pay attention to my stances.Originally posted by Drachasor
What is harmful?
Is it not wrong to kill another person for convenience sake?
Is that the only thing you have? It is more than just about abortion.
-Drachasor [/QUOTE]
Drach, an embryo is not human? What is it then?
The real answer is that there are a balance of rights between the unborn baby and the mother. The balance shifts from being totally in the favor of the mother during the first trimester to being totally in favor of the unborn during the third. This is Roe v. Wade.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
-
You are correct on that. He didn't want the federal government stepping in. Probably because he realized, rightly, that people weren't ready for gay marrriage but it will inevitably happen (already most people support gay marriage in all but the name).Originally posted by Ned
If I understood correctly, Kerry was in favor of states deciding the gay marriage issue themselves. He would be neutral on how they decided and would not be against states banning gay marriage.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
I more or less agree with that, because in the first trimester the baby is essentially brain dead. It isn't fully human, it doesn't and shouldn't have the rights of a citizen. The brain only begins to work during the 2nd trimester, and by the third it is basically a baby.Originally posted by Ned
Drach, an embryo is not human? What is it then?Originally posted by Drachasor
First trimester embryos=not human, pay attention to my stances.
Is that the only thing you have? It is more than just about abortion.
-Drachasor
The real answer is that there are a balance of rights between the unborn baby and the mother. The balance shifts from being totally in the favor of the mother during the first trimester to being totally in favor of the unborn during the third. This is Roe v. Wade.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Drachasor:
I am paying very much attention to your position.
It would help to answer the question posed.
Not a comment, but a question.Your other comment is a red-herring, since there is no good reason to consider the first trimester embryo as fully human.
You agree with Kerry to support partial birth abortion.
Yet, you also said, that having a brain makes you a person.
The unborn child in a partial birth abortion has a brain, so how do you reconcile these two positions?
Either you can drop your support for Kerry, and for partial birth abortions, or you need to change your definition of personhood.Last edited by Ben Kenobi; November 4, 2004, 20:25.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
-
When I say "isn't fully human" I of course mean it in the sense that a corpse or brain dead person is not fully human either. Genetically they are human, of course, but they don't have the same rights because what really justifies those rights is the capacity for thought.*
-Drachasor
*This is a line, a quality you have or don't have, not some spectrum upon which there are more rights as you are smarter."If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Drach, it would resolve a lot of religious difficulties if the Catholic Church would officially say that a soul enters the body when the brain becomes active.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
-
So do infants have this capacity for thought?When I say "isn't fully human" I of course mean it in the sense that a corpse or brain dead person is not fully human either. Genetically they are human, of course, but they don't have the same rights because what really justifies those rights is the capacity for thought.*
If so, then why does the 9 month old unborn child not have this capacity?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
-
As I said, only in life-threatening situations where the life of the mother is at significant risk. These situations do happen, and doctors must choose between one life and another.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The unborn child in a partial birth abortion has a brain, so how do you reconcile these two positions?
Either you can drop your support for Kerry, and for partial birth abortions, or you need to change your definition of personhood.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Originally posted by Ned
Drach, it would resolve a lot of religious difficulties if the Catholic Church would officially say that a soul enters the body when the brain becomes active.
"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Okay.As I said, only in life-threatening situations where the life of the mother is at significant risk. These situations do happen, and doctors must choose between one life and another.
So why then, are you in favour of killing the child through a partial birth abortion, rather than saving the life of both in an emergency c-section?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
-
See above: mother's life threatened.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So do infants have this capacity for thought?
If so, then why does the 9 month old unborn child not have this capacity?
I may have* been confusing by talking about Kerry's stances on parental consent and partial birth at the same time.
-Drachasor
*may have=probably was"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
Comment