The OFFICIAL United States Presidential Election Thread! IV

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I may be moving to Kansas shortly, because I have a couple lines on similar-paying jobs, while expenses are cut in half compared to New Jersey.

Don't forget your Jersey-ness! Keep it alive .

[The Mad Monk]

We already have a small colony "out there".

I am going because I see better opportunites in Kansas than I do here -- I mostly blame the NE real estate bubble for that. Rents are insane, and they are driving everything else up. I may "make more money" here, but those dollars aren't worth near as much here.

[mrmitchell]

Moving from Jersey to Kansas is just like moving one ring up in Hell.

[The Mad Monk]

I can rent this house for less than half the rent I pay for my 800 sq. ft. apartment.

...and THIS can be had for a little less than my rent.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If the woman is going to have problems delivering the baby, won't these same problems come with partial birth abortion?

After all, you have to pull the child almost all the way out. All but the head.

Why would it be less safe to do an emergency c-section than to induce delivery?

BTW, the primary complication in late pregnancy, eclampsia, the preferred treatment is a c-section.

The head is smaller cut up, and that is the hardest part to get out, so it might not be as stressful, I don't know. I don't know everything that might come up, and it might be the case that if a woman easily bleeds and has trouble with blood clotting, that a C-section is a bad idea. In a bill on partial abortion ban I would want a clause in there allowing it if the doctor viewed it as the best way to preserve the health of the mother in a life-threatening situation. Not pretty, but not everything in life is pretty. It may be the case that there is no known situation currently wherein a partial-birth abortion is necessary (I gave a hypothetical, but none of us really know), but there should be room in the law if a new situation does come up.

In other cases, probably most cases, it does sound like a C-section is a better thing, even though at 6 months or 7 months, or 8 months it could well be lethal to the child (especially at 6 or 7). In any case, if partial birth abortions are done at 9 months (which I seriously doubt, but it is possible) then they are exceedingly rare, as are all late term abortions.

-Drachasor

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Theben
From MrFun's (and mine) domestic partner rights= for gays only.

Reeks of 2nd-class citizenship. Even a conservative SCOTUS should strike them down.

My understanding is anyone can have a domestic partnership with another willing adult. It is the first step towards gay marriage. Only a fool would deny that 30 years from now gay marriage will probably be an accepted part of life.

-Drachasor

[Jon Miller]

murder which is very rare is still murder

JM

[Koyaanisqatsi]

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Ned: Everyones' taxes are going to go up big time because we owe so much money plus interest. Don't tax but spend any way Republicans have seriously damaged the future health of our country and now it isn't clear how we're going to pay off our debt and pay for the retirement of the baby boomers.

I agree that activist judges are bad but you seem to be under the impression that rightist don't nominate activist judges. They do and they've been trying to back door legislate an anti-choice/pro-religion agenda upon the rest of us.

1) Democrat myth. Growing economy automatically reduces burden. So long as there is no inflation, deficits drive growth. So long as growth exceeds the deficit, the burden decreases.

2) My how times have changed. Roe v. Wade forced abortion on an unwilling society. Trying to reverse that is now made out to be forcing anti-abortion on an unwilling society.

The problem, of course, is the whole concept of substantive due process. Just before Roe v. Wade, the Supremes thought they had finally driven a wooden stake through that vampire. They admitted that substantive due process was nothing more than judicial legislation and ursurpation of a power not delegated to the courts by the constitution, which had limited the concept to "process," meaning, "procedure."

[Ned]

Originally posted by Theben


From MrFun's (and mine) domestic partner rights= for gays only.

Reeks of 2nd-class citizenship. Even a conservative SCOTUS should strike them down.

Not if states only granted domestic partnership rights to all, leaving marriages to churches.

But, even if your statement was true, it mocks the rationale publicly put forth by most gay activists in that gay couples do not have equal rights.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Theben


That in a consumer-driven economy, it helps to put money in the hands of consumers?

THE consumers? THE?

Please rephrase.

SOME consumers. SOME -- those consumers who are members of unions at the expense of everyone else through higher prices.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Theben


a prime example of why no one here can take you seriously when you say, "liberals need to be nicer/more tolerant/whatever towards conservatives/republicans."

Yeah sure. We get endless hate from the left towards religion and those on the right who point this out are the problem.

[Ned]

And Theban, on Scarborough Country last night, they had a representative of the Catholic League and a Jewish rabbi. Both were apopletic about the anti-religious hate coming out of the Democrat party in this election. They cited chapter and verse.

There is no wonder that people of faith no longer vote Democrat. There is no wonder that the once Democrat lock on the Catholic vote is history.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Drachasor


The head is smaller cut up, and that is the hardest part to get out, so it might not be as stressful, I don't know. I don't know everything that might come up, and it might be the case that if a woman easily bleeds and has trouble with blood clotting, that a C-section is a bad idea. In a bill on partial abortion ban I would want a clause in there allowing it if the doctor viewed it as the best way to preserve the health of the mother in a life-threatening situation. Not pretty, but not everything in life is pretty. It may be the case that there is no known situation currently wherein a partial-birth abortion is necessary (I gave a hypothetical, but none of us really know), but there should be room in the law if a new situation does come up.

In other cases, probably most cases, it does sound like a C-section is a better thing, even though at 6 months or 7 months, or 8 months it could well be lethal to the child (especially at 6 or 7). In any case, if partial birth abortions are done at 9 months (which I seriously doubt, but it is possible) then they are exceedingly rare, as are all late term abortions.

-Drachasor

I take it then, Drach, that you advocate killing the newborn at the request of the mother without more? All births are dangerous to a degree and all abortions can be justified medically to a degree because all abortions reduce risk -- TO A DEGREE! To allow a heath exemption without any limitations on DEGREE merely sanctions murder.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just before Roe v. Wade, the Supremes thought they had finally driven a wooden stake through that vampire. They admitted that substantive due process was nothing more than judicial legislation and ursurpation of a power not delegated to the courts by the constitution

Um... Ned? Who do you think decided Roe? The Supreme Court did NOT admit substantive due process was just judicial legislation and, if they did, Roe would have never came about, because it was based on precedent from Griswold v. Connecticut, which struck down laws banning the selling of contraceptives.