remember those teenage abstinence pledges?

[Ben Kenobi]

so far I haven't seen anything that makes your theory plausible.

Look at things this way. If you value marriage, you are not going to get married before knowing someone for quite some time.

What are you going to do during that time, if you both agree to wait for marriage?

[pchang]

You are still talking about theory, while Theber is talking about what he has seen. You talk about what should be. Teben and Che are talking about what is.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yup.

So no commie bias in favour of military service, eh?

That's irrelevent. The simple fact is, the older you are, the more mature you are likely to be. Frankly, I don't think anyone under 30 should be allowed to get married or have children. Y'all a bunch of friggan idiots.

Maturity in my eyes often has little to do with age. I've seen teenagers take care of their parents.

Those of us who aren't stupid eough to take the pledges wait.

and why shouldn't you wait? You're already gettin' some. Why marry at all?

No, you should take the stick outta yo' ass and take some human sexuality and psychology and sociology classes. Learn how the world and human beings actually work, and not how some 4,000 year old shepards say we should work.

I trust the shepherd more than I would the teachers of today. What is new is not always better Che.

That's why we try to teach children about birth control. And if that fails, there's always abortion and adoption.

And how often do both fail? We have had condoms, and birth control for quite some time now.

Safe sex does not work. Even their proponents admit that abstinence is the only way that works all the time.

There's no logical reason to do so,

Sure there is. Shouldn't you love someone if you are going to sleep with them?

certainly not because some shepard on 'shrooms heard a bush talking to him.

As opposed to a commie who has already admitted to 'indiscretions' in his youth?

Sex isn't just for procreation. It's also for entertainment.

So why then should children wait for their entertainment? Why not encourage them to entertain each other as young as possible?

No, but you seem to have shut off the critical thinking part of your brain when you became one.

Well, this is where I say that I pledged BEFORE I was a Christian.

So obviously one need not be a Christian, in order to stop thinking critically.

[Ben Kenobi]

Theber is talking about what he has seen. You talk about what should be. Teben and Che are talking about what is.

So should we settle for what is, if it is not what ought to be?

Secondly, I have seen a great number of couples who have taken this route, and who have been very happy with each other.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If you value marriage, you are not going to get married before knowing someone for quite some time.

I guess that's why so many pledgers get married right away.

What are you going to do during that time, if you both agree to wait for marriage?

Have anal and oral sex, because "it doesn't really count as sex." Oops, another dirty little secret about Christian pledgers.

[Kontiki]

More to the point, Ben, you seem to be implying that if you have pre-marital sex, that's all you do and that those who have pre-marital sex only get married for sex.

[Kuciwalker]

I basically agree with you che, but I want to question this one statement:

Abstinence-only education results in children having sex earlier with less protection.

Teaching abstinence makes people have sex earlier? Is this some sort of reverse psychology?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So should we settle for what is, if it is not what ought to be?

Because dealing with reality rather than the fantasy in your mind will make us much more able to fight STD infections, unwanted pregnancies and future divorces. Derrr...

[pchang]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi So should we settle for what is, if it is not what ought to be?

Admit to what is, so you can devise ways to change what is to what ought to be that will actually work.

[Traianvs]

Have anal and oral sex, because "it doesn't really count as sex." Oops, another dirty little secret about Christian pledgers.

[pchang]

I gotta get me some of them Christian pledgers.

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess that's why so many pledgers get married right away.

Do they now. Statistics would be interesting.

Have anal and oral sex, because "it doesn't really count as sex." Oops, another dirty little secret about Christian pledgers.

Let's see. A woman who wants to wait until marriage consenting to anal sex.

Right, that's likely.

Secondly, it's not the pledgers who are the ones resorting to oral sex, many teenagers like the fact that there is no risk of pregnancy, unlike intercourse with the pill.

[Barinthus]

I've been teaching sex education and related issues for 5 years now. Abstinence Only simply does not work. No ifs and buts.

Educating students about all options available to them which abstinence is just one of along with other methods - now, that works.

[MrBaggins]

Ain't nothing like nailing 'em when they're vulnerable.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Do they now. Statistics would be interesting.

Interesting request since you've been insisting on discussing the theoretical, rather than actual.