Unofficial Apolyton Predicts

[Ben Kenobi]

Many people think (even Catholics) that antiquated attitudes must change. So she isn't alone on this

Right. So what's she going to do since she believes we *must* change? Personally, you're ok with it because you believe that gay marriage is right. Why don't you leave?

[Ben Kenobi]

The fact is Canadians learned quickly Harper was a moron.

I actually made quite a bit of money when the CDN tanked. Harper was the best PM I've ever lived through, the best since Dief.

You said black men are more likely to steal. That is what you said.

Uh, that's not what I said. But good luck finding the quote.

Where did she say that? I want direct quotations. I will be waiting.

LOL Ming already confirmed she said "must". Are you two really so unaware of the comments she made about Catholicism? It's like she's trying to force people to vote for Trump.

[Proteus_MST]

Right. So what's she going to do since she believes we *must* change? Personally, you're ok with it because you believe that gay marriage is right. Why don't you leave?

I guess if every catholic who disagrees with some rules of the church just leaves (instead of trying to work to change them ... or just outright disregarding them), then the catholic church would only be a minority religion instead of one of the largest religions of the world.
(I am rather sure that the churches stance on sex before marriage and use of contraceptives already would be enough to drive > 75 % of its members away (if they were only given the choice to either strictly obey those rules, or leave the church))

[Ming]

Right. So what's she going to do since she believes we *must* change? Personally, you're ok with it because you believe that gay marriage is right. Why don't you leave?

One more time... please quote her where she is going to shut down the Church or force them to change... Oh that's right, you can't.
Why don't you listen to the Pope? Oh, that's right, you claim to be a better Catholic than the Pope. Why don't you leave?

[C0ckney]

can we please not make this yet another thread about ben and the catholic church.

[Giancarlo]

Uh, that's not what I said. But good luck finding the quote.

Thanks to Ming:

"If black people robbed you, I'd not consider it prejudice for you to be angry at black people in general" - Ben Kenobi

Racist.

LOL Ming already confirmed she said "must". Are you two really so unaware of the comments she made about Catholicism? It's like she's trying to force people to vote for Trump.

She wasn't saying she was going to force them to do anything. The Catholic Church is based in the Vatican. Not the United States.

Quotes or GTFO.

[Giancarlo]

Hillary is now scoring consistent +4-5% advantages in Florida. Slightly better than Obama. I believe Obama won the state in 2012 by just a hair under 1%.

And yes, Ben is better then the Pope. Ben wants to be the next Pope.

It's hilarious Ben is *****ing about Hillary on something she never said. She said the Catholic Church should get into the 21st century. She didn't say she would abolish the Church or force them to do anything.

The Church thinks it can get involved in public policy in other nations though. Hypocrisy.

[onodera]

"If many white straight people historically oppressed brown or gay people, I'd not consider it prejudice to be angry at white straight people in general" - gian

[Giancarlo]

"If many white straight people historically oppressed brown or gay people, I'd not consider it prejudice to be angry at white straight people in general" - gian

Red herring and also a false correlation.

Do you have anything that isn't a logical fallacy? Considering you are oppressed by Putin, I'd consider it not prejudice to be angry at him!

I'm not angry at straight white people. Just angry at people who can consider supporting someone as wretched as Donald.

[Elok]

Bringing things back to economic vs. cultural roots of hatred towards Hispanics: when the factories closed down, most of their former employees became, for market purposes, generic low-skill workers. Maybe not quite that bad; most blue-collar white guys that I've met have some degree of mechanical skill. But mostly their best hopes for employment would be things like construction, landscaping, miscellaneous day labor, or perhaps things like meat processing. I.E. much the sort of work people routinely hire illegal immigrants to do. So it's something of a double-whammy. You lose your job at the factory, and then you can't even pick up grunt-work to replace it. Retail might be hiring--and you need to speak English to do certain things there--but only so many people can work at the Walmart. Rural areas are not shopping hotbeds. And besides, retail work blows. The wages are low, the work tedious and stupid, prospects for advancement slim. Food service is even worse.

This makes a good deal more sense to me than "they're stupid and mean and hate people who are different," which is sort of a leftist equivalent to "they hate us for our freedom." Of course, more Hispanics are born in this country now than come into it, last I heard, so it's somewhat moot now.

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess if every catholic who disagrees with some rules of the church just leaves (instead of trying to work to change them ... or just outright disregarding them), then the catholic church would only be a minority religion instead of one of the largest religions of the world.

Ming was baptized into the Catholic church as a baby. At some point, as a Catholic, he decided that he didn't want to follow the Church. The Church, since he's publicly stating that he disagrees with Church teachings actually has the right to deny him communion. That's how it works.

Yes, we have an obligation to teach the faith to those who don't know better. Ming *was* taught the faith. He's had it his whole life and still believes that the Church is wrong.

And.. we're ok with kicking people out who deliberately state they reject what the Church teaches and want her to change. It's not about accommodating them, it's about saving souls. We don't gain if we condemn other folks to hell by changing our teachings. That is what is at stake. Ming doesn't believe that homosexuality is a sin. That's one thing, publicly going out and saying, "I'm a Catholic. I believe the church is wrong and that homosexuality isn't a sin." Euhm, by canon law he could get kicked out because of that right there.

(I am rather sure that the churches stance on sex before marriage and use of contraceptives already would be enough to drive > 75 % of its members away (if they were only given the choice to either strictly obey those rules, or leave the church))

If you don't like the rules, why stay? Why change the institution in your own image, rather than leaving and going somewhere that actually does believe what you do. You'll be happier and we'll be happier. Everyone wins.

[Giancarlo]

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/forecast/president

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Both of these sites put in perspective. After a bad round of polling this weekend, Donald is even at a more severe disadvantage. The third debate? As long as Hillary stands firm, little ground will change. It really is the first debate that is the most important one.

Donald is at a serious disadvantage. If his support is thinning in Texas suggested, there goes his only big state that he was supposed to be ahead in. Georgia should also be closer to toss-up status, though I think he may win that by a hair.

But this just shows how much trouble republicans are in overall. If Texas continues the way it is going, they'll surely be in major trouble. And since people here like to postulate that Hillary isn't that wonderful, and Texas is that close... well...

BTW, Texas's SurveyUSA Poll had Donald 47-43%. SurveyUSA is given an A rating by FiveThirtyEight. It's a very good pollster.

[Ben Kenobi]

"If black people robbed you, I'd not consider it prejudice for you to be angry at black people in general"

Giancarlo, do you consider the following statement,

"If white people robbed you, I'd not consider it prejudice for you to be angry at white people in general."

racist?

[Giancarlo]

Bringing things back to economic vs. cultural roots of hatred towards Hispanics: when the factories closed down, most of their former employees became, for market purposes, generic low-skill workers. Maybe not quite that bad; most blue-collar white guys that I've met have some degree of mechanical skill. But mostly their best hopes for employment would be things like construction, landscaping, miscellaneous day labor, or perhaps things like meat processing. I.E. much the sort of work people routinely hire illegal immigrants to do. So it's something of a double-whammy. You lose your job at the factory, and then you can't even pick up grunt-work to replace it. Retail might be hiring--and you need to speak English to do certain things there--but only so many people can work at the Walmart. Rural areas are not shopping hotbeds. And besides, retail work blows. The wages are low, the work tedious and stupid, prospects for advancement slim. Food service is even worse.

This makes a good deal more sense to me than "they're stupid and mean and hate people who are different," which is sort of a leftist equivalent to "they hate us for our freedom." Of course, more Hispanics are born in this country now than come into it, last I heard, so it's somewhat moot now.

Donald hires undocumented immigrants all the time... so yea.

As far as your second sentence... I didn't really say that. But keep trying.

[Ben Kenobi]

One more time... please quote her where she is going to shut down the Church or force them to change... Oh that's right, you can't.
Why don't you listen to the Pope? Oh, that's right, you claim to be a better Catholic than the Pope. Why don't you leave?

Because I actually believe in what the Catholic church teaches?

Why do you stay if you believe that the Church *must* change her teaching that homosexuality is a sin?