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Read the ****ing Cracked article.
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You may find this interesting. Perhaps it provides the answer to your question.Originally posted by Giancarlo View Post
Perhaps Pauline Hanson is correct? I too have heard worse from BOTH men and women. Perhaps US voters are so thoroughly fed up with "politics as usual" that they are seeking change?
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Well I would like to read the article, but it says I need to subscribe and pay. Maybe I can spend the money I have from the go-go dancing last saturday, but I'd rather save that.Originally posted by Braindead View Post
No. Most US voters don't like Trump and don't approve of him. And he isn't "change". People are seeing him as a con-artist snake oil salesman.
It's inaccurate to say "US Voters" want what he has to offer. Grossly inaccurate. Now, perhaps you could actually answer my question.
BTW... this doesn't look like US voters really want him:
And he' s not teflon. So I couldn't read your article, but this disputes the probable premise:
Edit: And Trumps latest speech gets a huge thumb down:
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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A: Why does a certain subset of the population favor X?
B: Here is one potential explanation for X popularity.
A: You're wrong! Nobody likes X! X is terrible.
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He said American voters.
I said... some do. Most don't.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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CliffsNotes version: Any number of explanations have been offered for the rise of Trump. The most convincing is a combination of economic and social factors which add up to a conviction among a large subset of the population that the rest of the country has abandoned and betrayed them, and despises everything about them to boot. Parts of this are overwrought, but you can make a convincing case for others; for example, there are a lot of former factory towns that look to be on perpetual welfare life support since globalization ripped the heart clean out of their community. The occupants find this an incredibly demeaning existence, and appreciate it even less when people on the Left dismiss them as stupid hicks and characterize their opposition to the economic change that ruined them as simple racism.
I submit to you that your persistent lack of curiosity about what really makes these people tick is symptomatic of the problem here. Do you seriously believe none of these people can tell that he's a scumbag? Have you missed that whole desperate hail-mary aspect of his campaign? Or does it not matter because minorities and atheists and young urban professional types are growing so **** tha rednecks?Comment
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I got that from the Wikipedia page for Spartanburg, SC. The page itself tries to put a chipper note on things, and I really do hope they're turning around, because when Shelok and I passed through there on our way down here the place looked downright miserable. See how things were booming for decades, stalled around 1970, and have been sputtering ever since? Spartanburg is not all that atypical. It will go for Clinton overall, but mostly because it's half-Black as of 2000 and Trump is a yutz. It's not like life for minorities around there is going to be much more exciting or filled with opportunities than it is for poor white crackers.Originally posted by Wiki
EDIT: Of the ten biggest employers in Spartanburg, the top three employers are the regional wing of the state healthcare system, the county government, and the school system. All receiving substantial outside funding. The next biggest is Walmart, which hires less than a thousand people, and at the bottom of the top ten (after the city government) is Denny's world headquarters (WOOOO!) which hires a whopping 285. The total employed by all of them is 12.5k, the substantial majority of whom are in the top three. And that's a bit more than a quarter of the city's population.
EDIT2: Spartanburg is actually one of the lucky ones, it turns out; there's a huge BMW plant not that far away that hires almost as many people again. So I guess it's not the best example of globalization's perils after all.
Still, it looked pretty damn horrid passing through.
Last edited by Elok; October 13, 2016, 23:44.Comment
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I care about the economic issues facing certain parts of this nation, but I also know that Trump has nothing to offer.Originally posted by Elok View Post
Some are being conned. With Hillary's strongly rebounding numbers in states like Michigan and Ohio (+11%, though one said +4%), I think many are seeing pass the smoke.
Unfortunately, the issue is you can't please everyone and some are going to be perpetually pissed off about everything. Many of these hate those who are different then them and hate those who are doing better. They see Latinos and see invaders. When there are beneficial economic changes, not everyone will be pleased.
There is no real left in America, and the one that is perhaps center left being Bernie Sanders did connect with many.
No. I don't really give a **** what some think in this country. They have a diverging and dangerous view in which direction this country should go in and I'll do everything I can to oppose that. California is a super-dynamic economy and we evolved. Maybe other states should model after that? People support Trump out of stupid irrationality, and not for any real logical reason. My primary concern is for Hillary to win this election at all costs and to win at a huge margin (and it's increasingly looking like that). You can't please everyone.
California is the political and demographic future of this entire nation. This state is the foreshadowing. Once Texas flips and other states like Georgia change even further... these angry white males without a college degree will be increasingly irrelevant. Trump's primary base is white males without a college degree. He doesn't even get majority support from married women I don't think. So while I'd like to subject myself to sleepless nights over what this increasingly small subset of this country thinks, I don't think I will.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Ah. You've been marginalized long enough. It's time to marginalize them right back. That will work beautifully.Comment
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Hillary is scoring better in South Carolina than Barack Obama did in 2008 or 2012. The latest Winthrop University poll was 42%-38% (+4% Trump) from Sept 18th-26th (FiveThirtyEight). Inadequate state polling isn't giving an indication where the state is right now.Originally posted by Elok View PostI got that from the Wikipedia page for Spartanburg, SC. The page itself tries to put a chipper note on things, and I really do hope they're turning around, because when Shelok and I passed through there on our way down here the place looked downright miserable. See how things were booming for decades, stalled around 1970, and have been sputtering ever since? Spartanburg is not all that atypical. It will go for Clinton overall, but mostly because it's half-Black as of 2000 and Trump is a yutz. It's not like life for minorities around there is going to be much more exciting or filled with opportunities than it is for poor white crackers.
EDIT: Of the ten biggest employers in Spartanburg, the top three employers are the regional wing of the state healthcare system, the county government, and the school system. All receiving substantial outside funding. The next biggest is Walmart, which hires less than a thousand people, and at the bottom of the top ten (after the city government) is Denny's world headquarters (WOOOO!) which hires a whopping 285. The total employed by all of them is 12.5k, the substantial majority of whom are in the top three. And that's a bit more than a quarter of the city's population.
EDIT2: Spartanburg is actually one of the lucky ones, it turns out; there's a huge BMW plant not that far away that hires almost as many people again. So I guess it's not the best example of globalization's perils after all. Still, it looked pretty damn horrid passing through.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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I am for economic change and development, such as with aerospace and new technologies.Originally posted by Elok View Post
With these positive economic changes, some will be angry.
The other issue with manufacturing is automation.
But the factories they build here are heavily automated, employing a small fraction of the workers they would have a generation ago.
Even where these factories moved, jobs haven't come. Why? Automation.
Ben Casselman explains it quite well. These jobs are NEVER coming back. Ever.
Production is growing rapidly in the manufacturing sector, but the field employs even less people. Blame technology.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Please stop talking about the mother****ing polls for a moment, we all agree Trump is losing and the rats are leaving the ship. My concern here is the apparently thankless task of trying to get you to understand why anybody went for such a flaky candidate in the first place. I don't know how California's economy runs--I only know about the Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and unsustainable agriculture bits--but I don't think the entire inland of the country is going to copy it. Not without a big-ass infusion of nonexistent capital, and certainly not as long as the parts of the country which have money continue to deride them as irrelevant deplorables.
Xpost: Aerospace? Dead mill towns are going to be revived with aerospace?Comment
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Some went for him because he's a snake oil salesman and talked the talk. They were conned. They wanted to blame someone and immigrants and brown people were easy targets for Trump. Trump has even talked **** about California.Originally posted by Elok View Post
Most of California is booming. Not just those areas you named. And with new agricultural technology (ironically we're doing business with the Israelis in that field), not so unsustainable.
The angry white male is increasingly irrelevant and I think that's another reason why there is so much anger with that group. Well... can't please everyone.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Re: the Cracked article, I am sympathetic to the points made therein, as I've been trying to find a way to understand how a staggeringly large number of people who occupy the same country that I do can have such a dramatically different worldview. (I mean, yeah, I'm crazy and want to consume the world in an ever-expanding telepathic techno-blob, but that ideology is distinct from what I think are facts about the world as it stands today.) Where I think this angry, reactionary element of the electorate gets things wrong is in who they decide to blame for their troubles. The deaths of the industries that kept their towns running are not the fault of any single person or group, but of historical forces leading toward globalization and technology. Blaming immigrants and gays just seems like a non-sequitur.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Umh. Here is the relevant bit.Originally posted by Giancarlo View Post
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Senator Hanson, the One Nation Party leader, described the comments as “vulgar” but suggested they were on par with Bill Clinton’s public denials of a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky in the 1990s.
“It was said not on camera, it was said behind the scenes, and it was a tape recording. Now let’s be honest about it, there’s a lot of men out there that say horrific things, probably up to the same standard,” Senator Hanson told the Seven Network, adding “there are women as well who say vulgar things”.
“What is happening in America is that people have had enough, they’ve had a gutful of the major political parties, their country is going down the tube, there’s no work, there’s problems in the country. It is up to the people now: will they overlook these comments that were said in private … or will they say, no, that he may be different man?”
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