Oslo bombed

[Ben Kenobi]

For what?

Because I'm curious.

Ben will probably be nodding the whole time reading it.

This is what historians do. They comb through stuff and see what they can find.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nothing in that quote indicates he's concerned about 'burden on the planet'. He's only concerned about burdens to what he views as European culture. Any ecological impact to support his positions is just a bonus.

In terms of people as intrinsic worth, yes, the point is there. It's the only significant difference that I have found.

That, and he sees Christianity as an opposing nationalist force, which is very different from my perspective.

Hmm, he believes that the Byzantines were losers because of their system, and that the West was a superior system. Have to disagree with him there. He's arguing that the West was more innovative.

"one cannot help but notice that the separation of church and state which took place in the West after the papal revolution never happened there."

Page 247. This is an interesting position. How does he reconcile that with his position on the Catholic church?

[Al B. Sure!]

You don't grant people intrinsic worth. The discussion about divorce said as much. When people fail to live to your Christian ideals, **** them. You will make their lives harder to preserve the Platonic form of marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't grant people intrinsic worth. The discussion about divorce said as much. When people fail to live to your Christian ideals, **** them. You will make their lives harder to preserve the Platonic form of marriage.

No one is forced to undergo marriage. If a man and a woman choose to marry, then they should uphold their marriage.

Divorce hurts everyone, father, mother and any children involved. This is why I'm opposed to divorce, because it hurts people who are entirely innocent and have no part in the decision.

[Dinner]

Historically loads of people have been forced into marriage and economic or personal circumstances no doubt still force some people into marriage just as social pressure does.

[Ben Kenobi]

Historically loads of people have been forced into marriage and economic or personal circumstances no doubt still force some people into marriage just as social pressure does.

Oh, it's common even today, although not in the West. Why might that be, Oerdin?

[Dinner]

Mostly because of the women's liberation movement and the resulting social change which allowed women to work outside the home, earn money on their own, and so not be dependent on a man. Something you probably aren't overly fond of.

[Ben Kenobi]

Mostly because of the women's liberation movement and the resulting social change which allowed women to work outside the home, earn money on their own, and so not be dependent on a man. Something you probably aren't overly fond of.

It couldn't be because of Christianity, now couldn't it? Gosh, that would be hard to admit. Maybe Christ was right about this whole indissoluble marriage deal between men and women for life, no?

[Ben Kenobi]

Page 527 is probably worth reading in it's entirety. Lots of interesting things there. That's enough for tonight.

[Dinner]

It couldn't be because of Christianity, now couldn't it? Gosh, that would be hard to admit. Maybe Christ was right about this whole indissoluble marriage deal between men and women for life, no?

When christianity was at the height of it's power forced mariages were an every day event. Are you even capable of thinking logically and being objective?

[BeBMan]

They say now the guy had much longer time on the island, up to 90 mins. This doesn't sound good for the police, even when you count in distraction from the bomb attack earlier. Hope they learn the right lessons for the future.

[Heraclitus]

What makes little sense with the Catholic or Fundamentalist Christian interpretation is that they guy seems to have been a mason, or at least dressed up or photo shopped his head on and posted it on his facebook. Some variants of Christianity are compatible with Freemasonry but very few fundamentalist ones are.

I think the guy (and it hurts me to say this since I'm a nationalist) was probably a cultural nationalist. Going off this list in his book he seems to have a been a radicalised anti-Islamist.

Anyway, I consider the future consolidation of the cultural conservative forces on all seven fronts as the most important in Norway and in all Western European countries. It is essential that we work to ensure that all these 7 fronts using the Vienna School of Thought, or at least parts of the grunlag for 20-70 year-struggle that lies in front of us.

The book is called, by the way 2083 and is in English, 1100 pages).

To sums up the Vienna school of thought:

- Cultural Conservatism (anti-multiculturalism)
- Against Islamization
- Anti-racist
- Anti-authoritarian (resistance to all authoritarian ideologies of hate)
- Pro-Israel/forsvarer of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries
- Defender of the cultural aspects of Christianity
- To reveal the Eurabia project and the Frankfurt School (ny-marxisme/kulturmarxisme/multikulturalisme)
- Is not an economic policy and can collect everything from socialists to capitalists

He probably only valued Christianity as a potential bulk-ward not personally believing in a God or the teachings of any Church, much in the same way as he probably pro-Israel only to spite Arabs. BTW People here might be interested in what Razib Khan has to say about religion, politics and terrorism here.


I suspect he may have simply lost hope while writing up his book and gave up, considering Europe doomed and a lost cause, perhaps growing depressed or consumed with rage. The killing spree may have been simply a quest for bloody revenge, consequences be damned. The teens and young adults at the camp, represented to him the easiest way he could hurt the ruling class cultural Marxists, both directly (a large fraction where the kids of influential party members) as well as culling their next generation (knowing full well it was counter-productive).

Well at least this interpretation makes more sense to me than him being a Christian Zionist who believed rapture had just occurred and that anyone part of a socialist party had taken the mark of the beast and needed to be killed (having been left behind like most people alive his only hope of salvation was thus to fight the forces of the Antichrist).

I do wonder what he'll have to say for himself. Criminal minds, even the crazy ones, are pretty interesting.

[Nikolai]

This is horrible.

I've been away for some days on a wedding far from civilization(the bride will kill me for saying that), and haven't been able to post here. Thanks to Ben and Asher for bringing along news about me being well and news I've managed to post on facebook and Google+.

The perp for the Oslo/Utøya bombings confessed last night. He has also told the police why, but the reasons have not been made public yet. He calls himself a conservative Christian, but from what I read he has no known religious connection except with the Freemasons. He has published a 1500 page long book/manifest called «2083. A European Declaration of Independence», it was made public around the time of the bomb. It is filled with anti-islamsm, anti-internationalism and anti-multiculturalism. He posted a series of ramblings/comments to news articles on a site called document.no in 2009, a site I myself frequent. It's called anti-Muslim in the news coverage, but it actually isn't. It's anti-Islamic fundamentalism, and the site turned him away already then. I myself have read that site for years, and I remember this guy's comments(they were republished by the site in wake of the discovery of his identity). They were never violent, but while he was well spoken in there, he was obviously weird and was rebuked by the editors when he wanted to initiate a co-operation against the current political and civil system.

Earlier today the administration published all his posts collectively, well worth a read(with google translate for anyone not native speaker). And just a little while ago, document.no revealed that by reading up on the manifesto, they have discovered that a lot of the manifest is a plagiarism of the Una-bomber's manifesto.

[Heraclitus]

They say now the guy had much longer time on the island, up to 90 mins. This doesn't sound good for the police, even when you count in distraction from the bomb attack earlier. Hope they learn the right lessons for the future.

Seriously? Seriously? WTF, incompetence.

[Nikolai]

Seriously? Seriously? WTF, incompetence.

The police got the news about the shooting 17:27, in the middle of the mess in Oslo. The elite task force placed in Oslo is sent out immidiately, and reached the island 17:52. There were no boats available, of all things, so they needed to wait until 18:09 before they got it. 18:25 they invaded the island, and two minutes later the shooter surrendered without shots.