Oslo bombed

[Al B. Sure!]

To be clear, Yarmouk was a Byzantine counter-attack. The Muslims had taken Ben's precious Tadmor/Palmyra, as well as Damascus, 2 years prior to Yarmouk.


And when you look at this map which shows Muslim troop movements north then the retreat back to the Byzantine counter-attack (the Muslims smartly drew the entire Byzantine army in the region to fight on their terms at Yarmouk):



You see Busra? That was the Ghassanid capital which fell to the Muslims 2 years before Yarmouk.

I think the Ghassanids controlled the land at Yarmouk just prior to the Islamic conquests, not the Byzantines.

At the very least, the Ghassanid capital was looks like 20 miles from Yarmouk.

[Nikolai]

Fixed for you

Not bad.

[Al B. Sure!]

Then you also have to consider that the Arab armies were split. Half the Muslims had just defeated the Persians in Iraq and made a hasty truce to allow their forces to concentrate on the Byzantines.

Khalid ibn al-Walid led a Muslim army across the Syrian desert to rendezvous with the army that had invaded from Arabia:



It was Khalid ibn al-Walid who had taken Ben's precious Palmyra two years prior to Yarmouk.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think the Ghassanids controlled the land at Yarmouk just prior to the Islamic conquests, not the Byzantines.

And who were the Ghassanids. Here's a hint, they were Christian allies to the Byzantines. Yes, Busra was an important first step.

The border between the two Byzantine provinces runs right along the 5 road now to Damascus, about 10 miles east of Yarmouk. Which makes sense, because that was the main route on the east side of the Jordan.

[Cort Haus]

Nicolai, the cynical opportunism of the Left in response to this mirrors the US Right and their 'with us or against us' schtick after 911,

Seamus Milne is a vile individual, and he and many others are seizing this as an opportunity to try shut down discussion on multiculturalism by implying that anyone with concerns is 'feeding' people like Breivik. After 7/7 he was a cheerleader for Islamism.

[Nikolai]

Nicolai, the cynical opportunism of the Left in response to this mirrors the US Right and their 'with us or against us' schtick after 911,

Seamus Milne is a vile individual, and he and many others are seizing this as an opportunity to try shut down discussion on multiculturalism by implying that anyone with concerns is 'feeding' people like Breivik. After 7/7 he was a cheerleader for Islamism.

This worries me. If concerns are not allowed to be voiced, that can only mean trouble.

[Egbert]

Christians keep getting mad when the crusades are criticized or you say something happened in palestine when they think palestine is part of syria.

Did you mean to type:

Alby keep getting mad whenever the middle east is mentioned (or marines or islam or race or religion or diet or exercise or...........).

[BeBMan]

Middle East!Middle East!Middle East!

Also, esp. the first crusade sucked. The rest was either good stuff for movies or just absurdly funny ("Attacking the Saracens in Egypt? Damn expensive shipping from Venice. Well, why not just plunder christian-orthodox Constantinople instead while we have an army assembled!" -1204).

[Uncle Sparky]

Middle East!Middle East!Middle East!

Also, esp. the first crusade sucked.

An old Jewish man picks up a magic lantern and rubs it. A Genie pops out and tell the man he can have any one wish he wants.
The old man takes out an old map and points to the middle east and sais to the Genie," All I want is peace in the middle east. I want you to make it a land where Jews, Muslims and Christians can all live together and get along."
The Genie said," That area has been at war for so many centuries that peace there is way beyond my powers. You will have to wish for something else."
The old man thought for a moment and said,"Well, my wife Sarah and I have been married for over 40 years and just once, I'd really like it if she would give me head."
The Genie thought for a moment and said," Let me have another look at that map..."

[notyoueither]