Racist Poster

[Ben Kenobi]

Or matter fact, show your better some respect and use Habla!

I prefer English.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, fool! The collective bargaining agreement most definitely provides them with an inflated wage that more than makes up for the cost of the union dues. The issue is that by paying these above market rate wages, companies (and the unions themselves) are more restrictive on hiring.

Plus the businesses themselves getting their lunch stolen from them every day by their competitors in the neighbouring right to work state. Business goes under, suddenly you don't have the inflated wage anymore.

Being in a union is, on average, materially beneficial to the employed worker since a CBA gives the average worker more bargaining power than themselves alone. That doesn't mean it's good for exceptional employees, the company, the consumer, the economy, or anyone else.

With Detroit as the shining example. If unions were actually beneficial to labour they would actually increase production. They don't, they are simply a drag, so they actually make labour more inefficient.

[Al B. Sure!]

I prefer English.

You live in Texas!

Don't you know the Mexicans won the Mexican-American War via Beniverse logic?

[Al B. Sure!]

Plus the businesses themselves getting their lunch stolen from them every day by their competitors in the neighbouring right to work state. Business goes under, suddenly you don't have the inflated wage anymore.



With Detroit as the shining example. If unions were actually beneficial to labour they would actually increase production. They don't, they are simply a drag, so they actually make labour more inefficient.

Blah blah blah. That's not what you said. You said without unions, the worker would take home more money sans union dues. That's false. Your responses are not in defense of your previous point that I responded to.

[giblets]

I rather like the fact that I can work where I want to work and unions can't do jack. Why are you defending slavery?

Please explain how a mutually consensual contract between an employer and a union is slavery. Nobody is forced to deal with a union because nobody is forced to work for an employer who made a consensual agreement with a union. You always have the option of looking for work elsewhere. It's funny how you support big government if the government is interfering with something you don't like.

[SlowwHand]

Unions had their place historically, but now they're a drain on society.

[rah]

Yes, you can always look elsewhere it can DRASTICALLY reduce your options. Due to union support of public officials most cities/states only deal with unions for civic employment. So a lot of careers are limited. So while you're not forced, you can be highly influenced.

[giblets]

So do you think Ben's claims of "slavery" are applicable if someone has a hard time finding a job that has a certain characteristic they want? If I wanted to dress however I wanted and had a hard time finding an employer who was okay with that, would that make me a slave?

[rah]

I'm thinking more monopoly vs slavery.

[Ben Kenobi]

Please explain how a mutually consensual contract between an employer and a union is slavery.

For the employee, yes. I'm having to abide by contract terms that I neither negotiated nor agreed upon. How is that 'mutually consentual', when in many jobs I have no choice but to forfeit a portion of my earnings to belong to a union that I have no desire to represent me?

That's exactly like slavery.

Nobody is forced to deal with a union because nobody is forced to work for an employer who made a consensual agreement with a union.

Many unions are completely closed shop and if you want to work at that particular occupation you must belong to a union. Workers should never be forced to give up their rights to negotiate with their employer irrespective of occupation.

You always have the option of looking for work elsewhere. It's funny how you support big government if the government is interfering with something you don't like.

How is government restoring the rights of an individual to negotiate with his employer an example of big government? Hell, unions are a huge part of big government.

[rah]

So you agree with that moron Rashard Mendenhall that said that playing in the NFL was SLAVERY.

[Al B. Sure!]

For the employee, yes. I'm having to abide by contract terms that I neither negotiated nor agreed upon. How is that 'mutually consentual', when in many jobs I have no choice but to forfeit a portion of my earnings to belong to a union that I have no desire to represent me?

That's exactly like slavery.

No. That is not exactly like slavery. It is lacking in the most fundamental (and wrong) aspect of slavery... that a slave is property of its owner.

Being in a union is slavery


Let's see... Ben thinks...
- It's faster to run than bike
- American Indians should be grateful for having been liberated by the Americans
- The Crusades were justified as Christians taking back their lands from the Muslims
- Doug Flutie was better than John Elway and Jim Kelly
- Vinny Testaverde belongs in the Hall of Fame
- Being in a union is slavery

[BeBMan]

That's exactly like slavery.

'Fcourse I'm just a naive little Kraut trying to find his way in the world, but I thought the defining characteristic of slavery was not that you have to obey X or Y, but that you are the property of someone other from which anything else follows.

edit: bah too late

[loinburger]

It's just another aspect to the "taxes = slavery" argument that conservatives love to trot out. It is a mystery why they equate money and liberty, but there you go.

[Guynemer]

Let's see... Ben thinks...
- It's faster to run than bike
- American Indians should be grateful for having been liberated by the Americans
- The Crusades were justified as Christians taking back their lands from the Muslims
- Doug Flutie was better than John Elway and Jim Kelly
- Vinny Testaverde belongs in the Hall of Fame
- Being in a union is slavery

You forgot

- The South won the Civil War