Pro-Life Means Protect the Earth

[David Floyd]

Fine. So you are saying I have a 1 in 10 chance of contracting an STD. What are the odds now if I sleep with 10 or more people?

Yeah, that's math.

As for judgmental creeps, all I'm saying is look, you can be lucky or right. I prefer to be right and not rely on luck to avoid an STD.

And waiting for marriage is entirely relevant. That's the whole point of the comparison. Just because you'd rather be lucky than right, doesn't mean that your strategy is risk free. People are always criticised for being the downer and warning people that they are taking on too much risk. Well whatever.

Everything in life is a risk. While I don't have access to studies, I'd wager that driving on highways virtually guarantees a greater than 10% chance of an accident. But either way, the point is, yes, you're absolutely right. There is a RISK of me contracting an STD using condoms. However, there is a much LESSER risk of me contracting an STD using a condom as against me not using one.

Granted, 100% abstinence is the most effective solution. No one is denying that. I'm arguing that 100% abstinence isn't worth it, any more than avoiding highways is worth it. Yes, I'm taking a risk, but we take risks every day, and frankly, the risks I take are incredibly minimal compared to the risks taken by those with no access to condoms.

[DirtyMartini]

Fine. So you are saying I have a 1 in 10 chance of contracting an STD. What are the odds now if I sleep with 10 or more people?

Yeah, that's math.

100% -- so just sleep with 9 then quit. I'm good at math.

[Ben Kenobi]

Everything in life is a risk. While I don't have access to studies, I'd wager that driving on highways virtually guarantees a greater than 10% chance of an accident. But either way, the point is, yes, you're absolutely right. There is a RISK of me contracting an STD using condoms. However, there is a much LESSER risk of me contracting an STD using a condom as against me not using one.

Which I've stated here. I'm not arguing sex with many partners without a condom vs sex with many partners with a condom. I'm arguing sex with one partner is far safer than either option. You are right, that it's your freedom to choose risk, and it's your freedom to tell me that you believe you will be safe. I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is that you are taking unnecessary risks, and the consequences that you will be likely to face.

Granted, 100% abstinence is the most effective solution. No one is denying that. I'm arguing that 100% abstinence isn't worth it, any more than avoiding highways is worth it. Yes, I'm taking a risk, but we take risks every day, and frankly, the risks I take are incredibly minimal compared to the risks taken by those with no access to condoms.

So do you believe that sex should be regulated by interstate commerce?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Fine. So you are saying I have a 1 in 10 chance of contracting an STD. What are the odds now if I sleep with 10 or more people?

Yeah, that's math.

Oh my.

[Arrian]

Children.

Blessing? Yes.
Burden? Yes.

They're both, Ben. Anyone who tells you different is selling something.

Unlimited pop growth is a bad idea.
Pining for a return to some mythical harmonious-with-nature golden age is also bad. It's like the whole noble savage myth, come back to bite us in the ass...

Thankfully, those two views are extremes. Ben on one side, General Ludd on the other.

-Arrian

[Heraclitus]

I wonder where on the political axis the average apolytonian winds up on.

[Ben Kenobi]

Unlimited pop growth is a bad idea.

There are natural limits on growth even without contraception.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Most people aren't fans of plague or famine though, as human suffering is more appalling than the prevention of conception.

[BlackCat]

There are natural limits on growth even without contraception.

Yep, starvation, genocide, civil war, local wars, even global wars, but that is apparently fine when done in the christian spirit

[Wezil]

More souls in heaven. It's all good.

[Ben Kenobi]

Most people aren't fans of plague or famine though, as human suffering is more appalling than the prevention of conception.

So two people can have a billion kids? Sorry, not buying it.

[BlackCat]

So two people can have a billion kids? Sorry, not buying it.

What two ? Noone has said anything about such - though adam and eve probably could - they after all populated the world.

[Theben]

There are natural limits on growth even without contraception.

In biology that's called the k line, and crossing it is generally bad for any population finding itself there. Altered environment, increased predation, lack of resources (food)... others have already mentioned the likely outcomes of such an increase.

[BlackCat]

In biology that's called the k line, and crossing it is generally bad for any population finding itself there. Altered environment, increased predation, lack of resources (food)... others have already mentioned the likely outcomes of such an increase.

Damn you bastard - you have just reminded me that I once "borrowed" a book about that back in it the 70'ies. Don't know where it is now, but if the library ever finds out, I'm toast

[David Floyd]

Which I've stated here. I'm not arguing sex with many partners without a condom vs sex with many partners with a condom. I'm arguing sex with one partner is far safer than either option. You are right, that it's your freedom to choose risk, and it's your freedom to tell me that you believe you will be safe. I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is that you are taking unnecessary risks, and the consequences that you will be likely to face.

So, then, you do in fact believe that condom use is an effective method - although certainly not the only method - of combating and reducing the spread of STDs?

Because if you don't in fact believe that, then you also shouldn't agree that using a condom reduces the risk of contracting an STD as against not using a condom in the same situation. Y'see, you can't have it both ways. Either condoms are effective, or they are not. We can argue percentages til we're blue in the face, but let's get this one out of the way first.