Hu a big disappointment

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Frankychan
I won't doubt that Taiwan has made remarkable progress, but if you look at things in a historical sense, Taiwan belongs to China. It would be like one of the US states breaking off of the rest and becoming it's own nation (it's been done ala Civil War) and we've fought to gain back what was lost. I'm not saying that all the motives were the same, but in a way, they share the same reason.

The Confeds broke from the US, and the Union said that THAT wasn't happening. Same thing is going on with the Chinese situation. A part of the whole is missing, and China wants what it lost.

How can you loose something you have never own?

Taiwan has never been a part of China in the History of the World.

It was the Dutch that took Chinese Slaves to Taiwan after 1600s.

Only Polynesian lived on the Island prior to the Dutch going there. And they were there for several hundred years.

You should read Taiwan History before giving it to China

[Seeker]

"The US could easily destroy Chinese export lead economic expansion but(by) returning to its previous isolationist policies"

I don't think that this would be as easy as you make it sound short of war.

There is a reason that Chinese imports outcompete US (and other 1st world) made: they're cheaper.

The sudden shock of an economy suddenly dealing with much higher prices on a wide range of items while that economies' competitors (firms in Europe, Canada) still have access to the lower price items...why would any sane policymaker try to do it?

[Drake Tungsten]

In fact, I'm trying to help my students with this by doing a short series of classses on imagination

Good luck. I've been trying to instill some semblance of imagination in my students for a while now, with limited success.

[Ted Striker]

Hu???

[Drake Tungsten]

Hu's yo' daddy!

[Ted Striker]

Kelly Hu

[Ted Striker]

[Drake Tungsten]

Goddamn right, Ted.

[Ted Striker]

Unbelievable.

*cough*

Carry on with your "discussions."

[Sikander]

Originally posted by mindseye



Wake me up when they start burning Scientologists.

I'll bring the popcorn.

[Agathon]

If the Chinese want to invade Japan to get their own back for WWII let them go for it.

The Japanese are barbaric scumbags and deserve a good kicking.

[Frankychan]

Dammit, I had a bunch of rebuttals and statements until Ted brought that pic in.

Originally posted by mindseye

Hu has been a disappointment (especially in media-related matters) to those hoping for blazing reform, but as has been pointed out, he's not a complete write-off. His attention to those left behind by development is refreshing after Jiang Zemin's near exclusive focus on the urban elite. The article also failed to mention some of his other better achievements, such as working to get China's AIDS act together.

But at the end of the day, Hu is just one guy in Beijing. And in China local politics are often what matters much more.

I think the quoted article, like a good deal of what you read in the western press about China, is superficially true but overly simplistic and lacking the context to make sense of what it really means on the streets and in the fields of China.

For example, you may read about a particular book being "banned", but you may have no way of knowing that in fact millions of copies are being sold at regular book stores all over the country. That is China, and you should bear that in mind whenever you read quotes from speeches (lots of boilerplate and window-dressing) or accounts of anything that sound particularly draconian (the truth is often fuzzier).

While the "crack-downs" and "campaigns" you read about are taking place, in many ways China's society is liberalizing and becoming increasingly information-savvy. A notable editor is canned at one paper, while at the same time other newspapers are printing stories and criticisms never allowed before. Protests are breaking out in parts of the country, while at the same time many in big cities are enjoying lifestyles absolutely unimagineable even a generation ago.

This pretty much sums up the gist of what I wanted to say. To just lay an overall stereotype about China being one way or another is total BS. The main point of my argument that I have been trying to say is that China seems (in my view) to want back everything it lost over the centuries.

For the Taiwan issue. I'm not talking about the land (island) itself. I'm talking about it's PEOPLE and quite possibly, its infrastructure. When I bring up Kai-shek, I bring it up because of Taiwans foundation. Kai flees to Taiwan right? China waits until those "leases" or whatever expire and slowly gets back all their port cities that they lost. But, mainland China looks out and sees Taiwan...that last bit of territory, social structure, whatever that it feels belongs back with the whole. Nevermind the island, it's the people and the history behind it that they (PRC) wants.

Sikander-Ok, for my first (and your) statement about all that military hardware, you know more about that stuff than I do. I'll admit that. But what I'm saying is that the budget doesn't necessarily reflect the size of the military force itself.

For the Okinawan comment, while you may have visited there and lived there, I won't deny that I have never been there. HOWEVER, I have firsthand experience dealing with the Uchinanchu people from there. You have to remember that Japanese culture isn't like American culture. They'll say "ok ok" but they might not like it. My Oki friends say that they don't like the fact that the American forces there seem to feel like they own the place. Don't get me wrong, they like the protection...they just don't like the injustices that are being done to the locals there. And the convoy incident may have also happened in Korea, but I do know that it happened in Okinawa as well.

Oerdin-

1) I'm not quite sure I understand your point. Do you mean the land itself, the natives of the island, or the transplanted Chinese government?

2) I believe that China is slowly wising up to the import/export game. Products made in China are made cheaper than those made in the US. They ship the stuff here, make a profit, and still undercut the homegrown product. I'm not saying that this is the only proof...but it looks like they are slowly beginning to understand the name of the game.

3)
3) I guess you are right in the way the PRC is hardlining against said groups. I don't think it's a racist campaign against Japan though. I think it's more from the fact that Japan basically did the worst things possible to Chinese during the war and the Chinese are pissed that Japan isn't fessing up. I want to see Japan fess up to their war crimes, but unfortunately Japan is extremely stubborn and prideful. I don't know what's going on in Western China so I cannot comment. But from my eyes, Eastern China looks like it just wants all their lost lands.

4) Huh. This looks like a complex issue. I don't want to look like an a**hole so I'll try and make this as clear as I can. While I don't disagree that Taiwan isn't totally crazy. I really do see them as a part of China. NEVERTHELESS, unless some kind of reunification happens, I'm perfectly happy to see Taiwan govern itself. HOWEVER, I feel that China does have a claim over Taiwan only from that nations foundations.

5) Ok, I don't think China is inferior nor it's people. However, it seems from your post that you equate democracy to inferiority/superiority. This might not be what your saying, and please correct me. But, just from history's sake, I don't see China having the same kind of democracy as the United States, UK, or the other Asian democracies. BUT, if China would ever become a "true" democracy, I would most likely see it as taking a similar shape as Japan...but seeing as how China and Japan aren't very friendly, they'd probably scrap anything similar to Japanese government.


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As I stated before, when I talk about Taiwan going back to China, I'm talking about it's people and government...not the land itself. Heck, if the Taiwanese government was in the Phillipines, I'd be saying the same stuff. Personally, I don't think it matters where the Taiwanese government is, it's the simple matter of it being in existence and not under the control of mailand China that is irking the PRC leadership.

[Az]

You haven't replied to me!

[Drake Tungsten]

I want to see Japan fess up to their war crimes, but unfortunately Japan is extremely stubborn and prideful.

What exactly do you want Japan to do to "fess up to their war crimes" that they haven't done already? I'm curious.

[Ben Kenobi]

Except for the whole releasing of Sarin Gas on a crowded subway thing. You know, the entire reason that anybody has actually heard of the Aum Shinri Kyo. I asked for you proof of "terrorist" acts on the part of the Falung Gong and you provided none.

Took the words out of my mouth. I was going to say the same thing.