Hu a big disappointment

[Dracon II]

I'm not much of an expert on Fascism myself... but my understanding is that it works a little differently in each country.
Isn't it so that it Fascists are likely to be petit bourgeois and agrarian classes? I don't see how big capitalists are going to tolerate an ultra-nationalist dictatorship when their power is now largely cosmopolitan in nature. It's the middle classes that are likely going to support it. Of course, Fascists have often needed big capitalists to underwrite their power and/or put them in power, but I see this as being more expedient than an ideological commitment.
From what I read in that article, Hu seems more of a classical Chinese leftist in the Maoist mold... which suggests a regression... but not Fascist. A Chinese fascist would have dug deeper into history than Mao and the cultural revolution...
To tell you the truth I'm not sure what fascism in Asia would look like. The cultural antecedents are much more different.

[Frankychan]

Boshko:


1st point. I'm not talking about revenge or vengeance. I'm talking about how a nation that's been taken advantage of for centuries has finally wised up and is ready to try and beat it's opponent by his/her opponents own rules. I see China as saying "Ok, you wanna play by rule X, ok...we can play by rule X AND beat you at it." For instance, I watched an investigational report where an American company is getting it's tail kicked because China realized that they can make the same product, ship it over here, undercut the homegrown company, AND still make a profit. (the company was a sock maker). Same thing for Japan. Japan see's how America makes cars and says "ok, THIS is how you make cars" and beats our automobile makers with the efficiency and how well their cars are made.

So...while the companies in the US are complaining about the costs, they also turn around and complain about countries importing goods that are just as good as homegrown products.

2nd point. No I'm not denying that Taiwan is a democracy now. Hell no. What I'm talking about is Taiwan's foundations. Regardless of the fact and whether or not it is "right", Taiwan IS a rogue state. You gotta look past all the "democracy is right" and all the media fog that has been going on for decades. Sh**, I'M even distracted by the media. The majority of Chinese decided that they were tired of the bullcrap and polizei actions of Kai-shek and went with Mao. And with American assistance, he fled his ass to Taiwan...foreign assitance. Now, does that sound like an internal matter to you if foreign assistance was solicited?


3rd point. The majority of the people supported communism...therefore, I support the people.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Dracon II
I'm not much of an expert on Fascism myself... but my understanding is that it works a little differently in each country.
Isn't it so that it Fascists are likely to be petit bourgeois and agrarian classes? I don't see how big capitalists are going to tolerate an ultra-nationalist dictatorship when their power is now largely cosmopolitan in nature. It's the middle classes that are likely going to support it. Of course, Fascists have often needed big capitalists to underwrite their power and/or put them in power, but I see this as being more expedient than an ideological commitment.
From what I read in that article, Hu seems more of a classical Chinese leftist in the Maoist mold... which suggests a regression... but not Fascist. A Chinese fascist would have dug deeper into history than Mao and the cultural revolution...
To tell you the truth I'm not sure what fascism in Asia would look like. The cultural antecedents are much more different.

All good. Fascism in Asia would most likely look like Japan in WW2.

But at least you can see the cultural difference between Asia and Europe and the ideologies.

[Drake Tungsten]

Wow, that sounds exactly the same as early 20th Century Japanese rhetoric, right down to talking about wanting to be a first class nation.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that. And, sadly, Franky is on the money in his view of Chinese motives...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
You're so full of BS its ridiculous. Since when has the Falung Gong done anything worse than your standard BS phoney faith healings, which is the sort of thing that all religions do.

Sorry Boshko, you just don't know what you are talking about wrt Falung Gong. I picked the Aum Shinri Kyo because both are contemporary Doomsday cults, and they are strikingly similar. For starters:

1. They both worship living people as gods. Li is said to be "the biggest Buddha," whatever that means.
2. They both predicted the end of the world. Li wrote in his own book that Deng Xiapang asked him to postone the end by 30 years.
3. They squeeze money out from followers. How else do you think Li could live in the US in luxury?
4. They brainwash their followers and try to isolate them from society.

The list keeps on going, up to and include terrorist acts. The Aum Shinri Kyo unleashed sarin attacks, while Falung Gong attempted to silence opposing voices by mobilising large mobs of followers to block, threaten, etc.

[Bosh]

To tell you the truth I'm not sure what fascism in Asia would look like.

Meiji-1945 Japan to some extent, Chang Kai Shek tried and came up with a kind of slovenly fascism...

[Bosh]

I'm talking about how a nation that's been taken advantage of for centuries has finally wised up and is ready to try and beat it's opponent by his/her opponents own rules.

Again, sounds exactly like early 20th-century Japan.

What I'm talking about is Taiwan's foundations.

Right, Taiwan's foundations were **** and they were still able to produce a democracy. Main-land China can do the same for exactly the same reasons.

Taiwan IS a rogue state.

So?

You gotta look past all the "democracy is right" and all the media fog that has been going on for decades.

Wha?

The majority of Chinese decided that they were tired of the bullcrap and polizei actions of Kai-shek and went with Mao. And with American assistance, he fled his ass to Taiwan...foreign assitance. Now, does that sound like an internal matter to you if foreign assistance was solicited?

Again so what? Did I ever say anything good about Chang Kai Shek? I know the history of early 20th century China quite well. All that I'm saying is that Taiwan is democratic NOW.

The majority of the people supported communism...therefore, I support the people.

Past tense. Do they never get to change their minds? Also choosing between an unappealing communist dictatorship and an unappealing military dictatorship isn't much of a choice.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that. And, sadly, Franky is on the money in his view of Chinese motives...

Do you have any quotes of old Japanese leaders blathering about being a "first class nation?" I tried google and couldn't find anything.

They both worship living people as gods. Li is said to be "the biggest Buddha," whatever that means.

So?

They both predicted the end of the world. Li wrote in his own book that Deng Xiapang asked him to postone the end by 30 years.

Again, so?

They squeeze money out from followers. How else do you think Li could live in the US in luxury?

This is different from 99% of other religions how?

4. They brainwash their followers and try to isolate them from society.

This is different from vast numbers of other religions how?

The list keeps on going, up to and include terrorist acts.

Wha???? Link?

Also when you cut through all the BS, the current Chinese government is evil pure and simple. The Chinese police currenty send all the NKorean refugees they can catch back to NKorea where they will face torture and long imprisonment at the best. I refuse to be an apologist for evil and I am disgusted when others do so.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Boshko, do you REALLY think UR has any proof for his statements?

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Boshko, do you REALLY think UR has any proof for his statements?

Good point

[Az]

Originally posted by Frankychan
Boshko:


1st point. I'm not talking about revenge or vengeance. I'm talking about how a nation that's been taken advantage of for centuries has finally wised up and is ready to try and beat it's opponent by his/her opponents own rules. I see China as saying "Ok, you wanna play by rule X, ok...we can play by rule X AND beat you at it." For instance, I watched an investigational report where an American company is getting it's tail kicked because China realized that they can make the same product, ship it over here, undercut the homegrown company, AND still make a profit. (the company was a sock maker). Same thing for Japan. Japan see's how America makes cars and says "ok, THIS is how you make cars" and beats our automobile makers with the efficiency and how well their cars are made.

So...while the companies in the US are complaining about the costs, they also turn around and complain about countries importing goods that are just as good as homegrown products.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. If anything, you can make a vague connection with the fact that the chinese automakers, for the glory of the fatherland, of course, are paying their floor workers much lower wages.

2nd point. No I'm not denying that Taiwan is a democracy now. Hell no. What I'm talking about is Taiwan's foundations. Regardless of the fact and whether or not it is "right", Taiwan IS a rogue state. You gotta look past all the "democracy is right" and all the media fog that has been going on for decades. Sh**, I'M even distracted by the media. The majority of Chinese decided that they were tired of the bullcrap and polizei actions of Kai-shek and went with Mao. And with American assistance, he fled his ass to Taiwan...foreign assitance. Now, does that sound like an internal matter to you if foreign assistance was solicited?

I thought we've all matured to see beyond rules of "natural laws of dealing with nations", or crap like that. What happened, historically, right or wrong, makes no sense reversing, if you know you'll make stuff worse. The situation on the ground is that Taiwan's people enjoy more personal freedom than if they were under mainland rule. Imagine if someone claimed that Finland has to return to Russia, because the Soviets, who let it go, were an "outside intervention", or "proxy agents" of Germany: hell, even if it was true.... why on earth?

3rd point. The majority of the people supported communism...therefore, I support the people.

It maybe right... but what's done is sooooo done, for so much time, reversing it is massively unproductive, unrealistic and purposeless.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We have much of the technology. What we need is more abundent energy.

Fusion

[Az]

Fusion

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Frankychan


Sorry gang, but Taiwan belongs to mainland China.

Sorry commie apologist, but mainland China belongs to Taiwan.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
So?

I called you bollocks and pointed out the striking similarities between Falung Gong and Aum Shinri Kyo. Anything else?

Originally posted by Boshko
Also when you cut through all the BS, the current Chinese government is evil pure and simple. The Chinese police currenty send all the NKorean refugees they can catch back to NKorea where they will face torture and long imprisonment at the best.

Oh, is that why?

If the PRC accepts any DPRK "refugees" they will swarm across the border. That won't be a problem, except the PRC has 800 million peasants, most of them poor.

These "refugees" aren't seeking political asylum, they just want a better life. The problem is there is a huge mass of poor peasants all wanting a better life.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Boshko, do you REALLY think UR has any proof for his statements?

If you need me to prove my statements, you don't know crap about Falung Gong.