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"one man, one vote" was hardly a core value at the time, in the absence of universal suffrage even just for males. And you can compromise between a value and an interest.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324) -
No, he wasn't.Originally posted by JohnT
I think he was responding to me, Dan.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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"one man, one vote" was hardly a core value at the time, in the absence of universal suffrage even just for males.
OK, then government by proportional representation was the core value.
And you can compromise between a value and an interest.
Between a core value and an interest? Bite your tongue!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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"OK, then government by proportional representation was the core value."
Well somewhat, but I'd say it was mostly about balancing the states' voting powers. The composition of the senate is completely unreconcilable with that value.
"Between a core value and an interest? Bite your tongue!"
You think it's impossible? Why?“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Well somewhat
You see! If we had to come up with some wording about the core value itself, we would be arguing all day!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Even though the preamble is boring, I fail to see what is so horrible with it. They have managed to write one without including God in. Good. Now let's go do something interesting."I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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The core values are in Art I-2. Little to no dispute about it.Originally posted by DanS
Well somewhat
You see! If we had to come up with some wording about the core value itself, we would be arguing all day!
As for the preamble, let them haggle about the fluffy bits. The project won't fail over a dispute over the preamble...“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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IMO, the preambule summarize quite correctly the reasons we had and still have the built the EU. The body of the constitution has only to develop how they are translated in the practical life.
I am sure that our grand-sons will read it with interest.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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if you want something to laugh at, try looking at a constitutional charter of serbia & montenegro (known also as a S&M state). it was adopted despite the need to break up the union, because of intense eu pressure and is a complete chaos.
god have mercy on our civil servants....Comment
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He is alive!Comment
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Welcome to the club of crazy euro constitutions. The former members are Austria and the UK.Originally posted by LaRusso
if you want something to laugh at, try looking at a constitutional charter of serbia & montenegro (known also as a S&M state). it was adopted despite the need to break up the union, because of intense eu pressure and is a complete chaos.
god have mercy on our civil servants....“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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known also as a S&M state
I have heard one on that subject
Where are you going?
I'm going to a football game.
Who is playing?
Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia and Montenegro.
That not a game, it's a tournament!Comment
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The reverse version of Austria vs Hungary.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Because the words aren't backed by actions, the EU is I agree not about to turn into a Stalinist horror, however the basis behind it is that the government and especialy unelected officials know better than the average man on the street. The level of democracy and accountability is shocking.Liberty and freedom is "granted" by the state, that is the wrong way round. Free people should create the state.Originally posted by paiktis22
I wonder why Stinger and Brits like him have a problem with this?
I see Turkey will never make it BTW.Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)Comment
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"The level of democracy and accountability is shocking."
Yeah, like most national situations are better. We'll see with how much lying and abuse of office Blair gets away soon, will be interesting.
As for the EU, it doesn't follow the classic parliamentary system. That has advantages and disadvantages. Here's a good article about the system:
But you are more interested in stereotype than fact, so I doubt it's useful to you.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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