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The EU Constitution and Core Values

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  • The EU Constitution and Core Values

    Here's a funny article from the FT...

    Giscard attacked over EU 'core values'
    By George Parker in Brussels
    Published: May 28 2003 20:56 | Last Updated: May 28 2003 20:56

    Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, president of the European Convention, on Wednesday presented his preamble to Europe's draft constitution emphasising the continent's "cultural, religious and humanist inheritance" but failing to mention God and Christianity.

    The exclusion of God in the preamble will anger many Catholic countries, Christian Democrat politicians and the Vatican. It comes amid increasing criticism of Mr Giscard d'Estaing's draft constitution.

    The former French president hoped that the preamble, intended to be an introduction to the EU constitution, would set out Europe's core values and be taught in schools to inspire generations of children.

    But the end result, to be presented to EU leaders on June 20, is much longer than comparable texts. Its six paragraphs dwarf the single paragraph preambles to constitutions in countries such as the US, France and Germany.

    "The European draft is long-winded, awkwardly phrased, vague on critical points and airily idealistic," said Andrew Moravcsik, professor of government at Harvard University.

    The full draft of the constitution, presented in stages this week, has drawn fire from many quarters over its contents.

    Romano Prodi, president of the European Commission, criticised the draft for failing to propose greater co-ordination in foreign policy or the economy. And he encouraged the 105 members of the Convention to propose amendments to the text when they debate it today and tomorrow. "I have to honestly admit that the draft text is a disappointment," Mr Prodi said. "It is in some respects a step backwards. Despite all the hard work we have put into this, the text that is now before us simply lacks vision and ambition."

    Some members of the convention have criticised the draft text for failing to protect the interests of Europe's smaller countries.

    Elmar Brok, a leading German Christian Democrat MEP, said the text was "biased in favour of the large countries" such as Britain and France.

    On the faith issue, Mr Giscard d'Estaing accepted arguments that explicit references to Christianity would be insensitive to Europe's other religious groups.

    Instead there is a reference to the EU's debt to the "civilisations of Greece and Rome" and later "by the philosophical currents of the Enlightenment".

    The EU's common values are defined as "equality of persons, freedom and respect for reason" and that it has a mission to protect "the weakest and most deprived".

    Britain's insistence that the word "federal" be removed from the main body of the constitution led Mr Giscard d'Estaing to insert a balancing clause in the preamble: the EU would be "united in an ever closer fashion".

    The fact that nobody is entirely satisfied has prompted aides to Mr Giscard d'Estaing to hope that compromises can be found and that the whole convention can unite around a single text.
    This is just too damn funny. Who gives a flying flip whether God is mentioned, or whether a debt to the ancient Greeks and Romans is part of the text? (puleez.) Or whether the word "federal" is used? Don't you Euros have better things to argue about? Like the actual provisions of the document? Hmmm?

    It should all have been left out.
    Last edited by DanS; May 28, 2003, 22:17.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, president of the European Convention, on Wednesday presented his preamble to Europe's draft constitution emphasising the continent's "cultural, religious and humanist inheritance"

    No mention of religion belongs in a constitution. This pandering to the religious nutcases is abominable.
    Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

    Comment


    • #3
      The EU is going to be majority muslim in 50 years, anyway. Why not just plan ahead and mention Allah?

      Normally, I support the Vatican. But this is just too stoopid.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

      Comment


      • #4
        Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, president of the European Convention, on Wednesday presented his preamble to Europe's draft constitution emphasising the continent's "cultural, religious and humanist inheritance" but failing to mention God and Christianity.

        YAY

        I really feared that the Poles would manage to slip God in the constitution. I'm really glad the religious nuts have failed. God has nothing to do in any constitution or legal process of a modern country.
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

        Comment


        • #5
          Here is the oh-so-offensive passage:

          ' "The union's values include the values of those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty as well as those who do not share such a belief but respect these universal values arising from other sources." '

          Comment


          • #6
            Dan :

            The EU constitution, from the draft I've read a few months ago, is extremely inambitious, and mostly looks like a unification of all founding treaties into one constitution (which will make modifications to the fundamental texts much more easy and with much less bureacuratic needs).

            The author of the constitution, the "European Convention" was intended to think about a political long term vision for Europe. These consideration can be found in the preamble of the constitution.

            Unfortunately, EU's consensus culture turned this vision-building into petty bickering to make sure nobody will be dissatisfied. While consensus can be good for practical decisions, the obsession of reaching one plainly sucks when you are to develop a vision.

            I can't wait for a democratic and powerful European Parliament to change the text according to the wishes of the majority of Europeans, rather than trying to have everybody agree, from Greek communists to Polish Agrarians, from Spanish syndicalists to British technocrats
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JohnT
              Here is the oh-so-offensive passage:

              ' "The union's values include the values of those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty as well as those who do not share such a belief but respect these universal values arising from other sources." '

              http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030214/i38.shtml
              I would have sure spat on the constitution if it had any such passage. I won't obey to a constitution that has God among its core values.
              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

              Comment


              • #8
                I can buy "truth", "justice", and "beauty", but "good" is far too fuzzy to be mentioned.
                Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the EU is a lost cause if you have to spell out a vision in 6 paragraphs. I keep expecting to see "brevity is the soul of wit" inserted somewhere in the text.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would have sure spat on the constitution if it had any such passage. I won't obey to a constitution that has God among its core values.


                    It is this type of anti-religious fervor that really confounds me. The passage said that they include the values of those that believe in God as WELL as those who do not in ideas of truth, justice, good, and beauty. For the life of me, I cannot figure out where that endorses religion.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The EU Constitution and Core Values

                      @ DanS and Imran

                      If you want some clarification on the issue let me know.
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's what the thread is for, Hersh.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I thought this was the funniest part...

                          The former French president hoped that the preamble, intended to be an introduction to the EU constitution, would set out Europe's core values and be taught in schools to inspire generations of children.
                          Oh, school children are really gonna love this guy.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK, imagine that in your constitution :

                            "The union's values include the values of those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty as well as those who do not share such a belief but respect these universal values arising from other sources. They also include the values of those who believe that the righteous Bozo The Great Rabbit is the greatest source of good and will crush the ugliness and boredom on Earth after a fateful confrontation against Red Goldorak, as well as those who believe their life is meaningful thanks to their Beautiful Regeneration in maggots doing the Yogic Flight"


                            Begin to understand ? We do not need fantasistic, and to be sure extra-political beliefs in our political construction. It is useless.
                            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              Oh, school children are really gonna love this guy.
                              He's so hip, he'll be incredible popular at recess
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                              Comment

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