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The EU Constitution and Core Values

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  • #151
    Originally posted by HershOstropoler
    "should be completely overhauled in order for us to build something great, in a democratic fashion."

    How exactly?
    Like having Europe-wide elections for the MP (unlike the several-nation wide system we have now) which will push for more party and political coordination.
    Like having this parliament having the law initiative, and having the final say in every EU directive.
    Like having an executive (i.e the commission) elected by the population, either through the parliament, or directly (I prefer the second oprion, but I can live with the first) and accountable in front of its voters.
    Like getting rid of the inter-governmental haggling, which is currently the most obscure AND the most powerful force behind EU decisions.

    Like giving enough monbey to the commission so that there is enough staff to actually write good reglementations, rather than copy/pasting what the lobbyists write.

    Like giving extended powers to Europe, esp. in regard of Foreign policy, provided the voters have a real say in how Europe is led.


    Yes, I would think it's better.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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    • #152
      Originally posted by HershOstropoler


      The "trolling in the 21st century" conference?
      Euo Solid State Ionics. Run by a German. They were required by EU requirements to do it in an impoverished area of Europe. Like a Greek Island or Spanish beach...

      Comment

      • #153
        And I'm not trolling, I'm just reporting back. It was a little silly in its EUness. The science part was cool and the location was great. But the EU parts were kinda rinky dink. And even the Euians said so.

        There were two lesbian EU administrators who knew no science but came along to check on the conference. They just enjoyed the location...

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        • #154
          It's just good contingency planning.

          For what? It just seems disruptive to me.

          Suffering from more lack of editing...
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #155
            Originally posted by DanS
            It's just good contingency planning.

            For what? It just seems disruptive to me.
            In case one of the parliaments gets blown up of course.
            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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            • #156
              should I buy dollars now or wait even longer?

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              • #157
                Originally posted by GP
                There were two lesbian EU administrators who knew no science but came along to check on the conference. They just enjoyed the location...
                What did they do? Administrate?
                “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                Comment

                • #158
                  Spiffor:

                  I disagree on several points, mostly from a federalist rather than a centralist pov:

                  1. having Europe-wide elections for the MP

                  Depends. A single election law is overdue. But I'm strictly against EU-wide lists which would mean up to 300 MEPs elected by list. This has to be done on a regional basis (like eg in Germany), otherwise the MEPs have no connection to a constituency.

                  2. having this parliament having the law initiative

                  I'm a bit torn on this. I fear it will result in a flood of crappy initiatives. The EP can demand a Commission initiative; it can censor or dismiss the Commission if it seems that worth it. IMO it can also sue the Commission and force it via the ECJ to start an initiative, but I haven't follwowed doctribne on this point.

                  3. having the final say in every EU directive

                  I'm not sure what you mean there. the EP as single legislator? No. The Council of Ministers is the necessary federal component in a federal two-chamber system.

                  4. having an executive (i.e the commission) elected by the population, either through the parliament, or directly

                  I'd say through parliament. This is currently not a legal, but a political problem.

                  5. Like getting rid of the inter-governmental haggling, which is currently the most obscure AND the most powerful force behind EU decisions.

                  As I said, I'm against abolishing the Council of Ministers.

                  6. Like giving enough monbey to the commission so that there is enough staff to actually write good reglementations

                  EU law isn't that bad, compared to national law. Most of it is administrative law, and that is simply a pain to write. I don't think this is a staff-related problem.

                  7. Like giving extended powers to Europe, esp. in regard of Foreign policy

                  Yes.
                  “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                  Comment

                  • #159
                    what about buying dollars?

                    Comment

                    • #160
                      Don't.
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                      Comment

                      • #161
                        The EP has two bases because of old decisions that are holding. But every MEP wants to get out of Strasbourg (beautiful building, but far from Brussels the real capital of Europe, and not enough room).

                        It is mostly France's insistance to keep some things in its own "City of Europe" that makes the EP still holding plenum in Strasbourg. Besides, we have no idea of what to do of this gorgeous building once th EP gets out...

                        Maybe we should create some other institution to fill it ?
                        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                        Comment

                        • #162
                          Originally posted by HershOstropoler


                          What did they do? Administrate?
                          I guess they are along in some funding/grant-approval capacity. And checking to make sure that the science gets done (while they enjoyed the location). In the US, somebody like that at NSF or NATO or the like would be have a Ph.D. science background and would have a little more understanding of the match from science to the objectives of the funding aganecy. These chicks did not have that. Nor did they administer in terms of the logistics, etc. That was all handled by the conference organizer and his secretary (German professor). They did give a rather insipid speech about EUness and the importance of developing young researchers and the like...

                          Comment

                          • #163
                            Originally posted by Spiffor
                            Maybe we should create some other institution to fill it ?
                            I'm sure the UN could move there once the US decides to kick it out.
                            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                            Comment

                            • #164
                              Originally posted by GP

                              I guess they are along in some funding/grant-approval capacity. And checking to make sure that the science gets done
                              Ad 1., no.

                              Ad 2., an observer role? Maybe.
                              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                              Comment

                              • #165
                                Originally posted by HershOstropoler


                                Ad 1., no.

                                Ad 2., an observer role? Maybe.
                                I don't understand your clipped comments.

                                WRT 1, I'm pretty sure they funded the conference. That is what I meant. Not in the sense of funding general research and attending for that reason (I've seen that in US at ACS and MRS conferences by NSF guy for example.)

                                It was more than a passive observer. The conference had Euro in the title, had specifications on where it could be, had subsidies for attendance, etc.

                                Let me look for a website.

                                I'm not making a big argument of it. It is what it is. Pretty decent and fun conference. But the rah, rah EU stuff was a little hokey. So said my young German science colleagues. Guy who I ran with and hung out with...

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