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Its a pile of crap from beginning to end.
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Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
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From the country that just had a big argument about whether the Pledge of Alliance should contain the words 'under God' or not.Who gives a flying flip whether God is mentioned, or whether a debt to the ancient Greeks and Romans is part of the text? (puleez.) Or whether the word "federal" is used? Don't you Euros have better things to argue about?
"Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the worldComment
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No, it's apparantly for some pretty dumb trolling.Originally posted by JohnT
That's what the thread is for, Hersh.
The core values as far as they are of direct normative relevance are in Art 6 EUT, which is Art I-2 in the latest draft. The comments so far are so uninformed that it is not possible to identify what is meant by that 6-paragraph-preamble. Art I-3, maybe? Only your link refers to a specific article.
Then we have this dimwitted clown:
No really, a constitutional text is vague, my dear colleague? You should immediately publish that revolutionary finding. So far we used to believe that phrases like "establish justice" are so incredibly precise. And "To regulate commerce... among the several states" proved to be a stunning example of undisputed clarity.The European draft is long-winded, awkwardly phrased, vague on critical points and airily idealistic," said Andrew Moravcsik, professor of government at Harvard University.
What a dumbass, but maybe he's at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, so I shouldn't be surprised.
TheStinger: "Its a pile of crap from beginning to end."
Is that brilliant analysis based on 724/03 or an earlier draft?Last edited by HershOstropoler; May 29, 2003, 05:52.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Fellow Eurocoms, let´s think out some cool lines for the new EU Constitution!!!
BlahComment
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Its based on all of the drafts. Unless there is one which says the EU will get no more power over anything until it stops being such a bureaucratic corrupt mess.Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
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Read the Sun too much?
Maybe you could show us a model for your utopia.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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We the idiots in Brussels will endevour to waste your money with ever increasing zeal and fervour.Originally posted by BeBro
Fellow Eurocoms, let´s think out some cool lines for the new EU Constitution!!!
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)Comment
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A Single market with an opportunity to agree other issues where countries see such agreements in their interests.Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Read the Sun too much?
Maybe you could show us a model for your utopia.
There being no body other than one to implement already agreed measures.
No legal entity to thet body and certianly no supremacy over member nations laws, other than those measures that directly affect the operating of a single market.
Why that makes me a sun reader I don't know.Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)Comment
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Then get out of the EU and fall back on EEA.
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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well if the eu adopts this constitution that is what I would want. Of course you must be happy with an organisation that can't gets its accounts approved by its auditors and whose top officials are under investigation more times than Tony SopranoSpace is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)Comment
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Ah Giscard... When Greece apllied to the EU he said:" A Europe without Greece would not be complete" and persuaded the Germans to drop their objections which were there because they thought that if Greece was let in then the Greco-Turkish problems would become theirs as well.
The Brits were neutral and when the Germans said OK after pressure from the French the Brits said ok too. Ah, Giscard...Comment
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"can't gets its accounts approved by its auditors"
Seems the Court of Auditors is taking its job seriously.
And most of the waste and corruption wrt EU funds is at the national level. Lame to blame Brussels for that, esp as no one there has the resources to realy control the member state agencies.
"and whose top officials are under investigation more times than Tony Soprano"
How often? How does it compare to national officials?“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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The wording on the EU constitution is ridiculous but given the number of attempts to unite europe by force over the last thousand years I would rather see arguments with words than with bullets.
Since I live in a country which doesn't have a written constitution but fudges and invents things as it goes along I don't feel in a strong position to be too critical on this one.Never give an AI an even break.Comment
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Hmm actually was that Giscard or Miteran? Not sure. Nevertheless Giscard is a proven Phillelline.Comment
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Cerberus:
Yes, politicians write ridiculous things, especially when they look for some compromise.
Of course, this isn't exactly new, either. I don't think anything in the EU draft gets as ridiculous as:
orRepresentatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states... by adding to the whole number of free persons... , excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
The... importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight...“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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