Fantasy Football Discussion Thread

[Solomwi]

Imran, you have to at least admit that Flutie sported a sweeter mullet than Johnson. And how dare you deny the football-wide conspiracy to keep Flutie down!

[Ben Kenobi]

OMG!!!! Led them to a full 5 wins?!

Yep, that was a terrible, terrible team. They were fortunate not to go 0-16 the year before. The 2001 team was horrible. Flutie even at the age of 42 would later take over from Brees and won more games than him, despite only starting 5 games.

And seriously, there is no way that Johnson is in the same league as Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, etc, etc.

He's worse. Rob Johnson went 12-17 in games he started. In 29 games, he was sacked 140 times, nearly 5 times each and every game.

Well, a) the CFL doesn't have nearly the talent of the NFL and the whole 12 men thing and 3 downs and wider field, means its a far more wide open game. Therefore the 48 TDs doesn't compare.

3 downs means that you have fewer passing opportunities.

Say you did nothing but pass, and both players were successful 75 percent of the time.

Pass/Pass -> Pass/Fail - Kick

Pass/Pass -> Pass/Fail/Pass -> Pass/Pass -> Fail/Pass/Pass, and so on.

Assuming each pass went for at least 5 yards, and you didn't fail two passes in a row, you can pass forever.

In the CFL, one pass can and will end your drive. Yes, the average offense is better suited to the pass in the CFL, but say you have Brady's spread offense, it's going to work much better in the NFL than in the CFL as you have the extra down.

[Ben Kenobi]

Um... he was 26 and 27 while QB at New England, not exactly the "start" of a career, and was HORRIBLE! He played 11 games (9 starts) in 1988 for the Pats and had a 63 passer rating and then the next year he played 5 games (started 3) and had a 46 passer rating.

Is there a reason you are leaving out his record? He was 6-3 with the '88 Pats. That's pretty good. The team was 6-3 with him, and 3-4 without him, so they were significantly better with Flutie at the helm.

How many players do you know with a .667 win percentage who don't get the opportunity to start the next season? Flutie's the only one I can see. Not to mention this was his THIRD team!

That NE team was expected to go 7-9, but Flutie made them 2 games better than they otherwise would have been. Every team that Flutie has been behind has been better because of him.

Why was his passer rating so low?

Lines like this one: 6-18 165 yards 4 TDs.

That's right. With 6 completions, he threw for 27.5+ yards per completion. Even though he only completed a third of his passes, he was still averaging a very respectable 9.1 yards per attempt!

All his lines are like this. Few attempts (not more than 20), lots of TDs, lots of INTs, very high yards per completion and yards per attempt. The result is a deceptively low passer rating. Passer rating is geared towards players with these types of lines, 30-40 300 yards, 2 TDs 1 INT. Yet, even with the hypothetical 300 yards, Flutie was a more effective passer.

[-Jrabbit]

It's like a ritual, complete with random Ben falsehood:

How many players do you know with a .667 win percentage who don't get the opportunity to start the next season? Flutie's the only one I can see.

As a rookie, Kyle Orton, Chicago Bears, 2005, went 10-5 (.667), including an 8-game win streak.
In 2006, they brought in Brian Griese as their QB2 and Orton was actually demoted to third string. He didn't get a chance to start again until the last couple games of 2008, after the Bears were eliminated from playoff contention.

[snoopy369]

Kyle Orton is the greatest QB in Bears' history

[SlowwHand]

He's probably in the Top 3, sadly.

[Al B. Sure!]

Walter Payton was, bar none, the greatest player to play QB in Chicago.

[Sparrowhawk]

http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/survival/1509

1509 is group I.D. number and password is Poly.

Thank you very much SlowwHand and snoopy, I wouldn't have found this without your help. Joined and first pick taken (though I am not happy with my first pick).

Given my trouble finding this, isn't it possible we would have more entrants if this had a thread of it's own? I don't have the time or the football knowledge to enter any of the regular leagues, but for something like this that requires 2 minutes of my time each week, I am happy to enter and I have to wonder if others would too. Just a thought.

/me

[Ben Kenobi]

As a rookie, Kyle Orton, Chicago Bears, 2005, went 10-5 (.667), including an 8-game win streak.
In 2006, they brought in Brian Griese as their QB2 and Orton was actually demoted to third string. He didn't get a chance to start again until the last couple games of 2008

Hence the phrase, "the only one I can see". Thanks for the correction.

[Al B. Sure!]

Why was his passer rating so low?

Lines like this one: 6-18 165 yards 4 TDs.

That's right. With 6 completions, he threw for 27.5+ yards per completion. Even though he only completed a third of his passes, he was still averaging a very respectable 9.1 yards per attempt!

All his lines are like this. Few attempts (not more than 20), lots of TDs, lots of INTs, very high yards per completion and yards per attempt. The result is a deceptively low passer rating. Passer rating is geared towards players with these types of lines, 30-40 300 yards, 2 TDs 1 INT. Yet, even with the hypothetical 300 yards, Flutie was a more effective passer.

I know whether talking about politics or football, facts don't exist in the Beniverse but, what the heck...

Doug Flutie career TD % (TD's/pass attempt) was 4.0; His career yards/attempt was 6.8.

For comparison (TD%; yards/attempt):
Peyton Manning: 5.6; 7.7
Ben Roethlisberger: 5.3; 8.0
Tom Brady: 5.3; 7.3
Eli Manning: 4.5; 6.7

Hell, even, Rob Johnson: 3.7; 7.2

Wrong again, bucko.

Now where does Doug Flutie stand on these statistics that you claimed he was so strong at?

Yards/attempt, he's tied for 124th all-time with the likes of Ron Jaworski, Aaron Brooks, Doug Williams, and (surprisingly) Rich Gannon.
TD%, he's tied for 125th all-time with the likes of Elvis Grbac, Tommy Maddox, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams again, Jay Fiedler, and Erik Kramer.

Yeah that sounds about right. When I think Doug Flutie, I think of a Tommy Maddox sort of guy in and out of the NFL.

So, the facts speak for themselves... even at the very specific areas that you claimed he was strong at, he is the mere 124th best QB of all-time Yeah, I'll give him that.


Where Flutie was actually pretty good was in his INT% actually. Contrary to what Ben claims, Flutie DIDN'T throw a lot of INTs. His 3.2% ties him at 51st with Brett Favre, Kerry Collins, and Eli Manning. So per pass attempt, Flutie didn't throw more INTs than Favre or Kerry Collins... I'm not sure how good that truly is in retrospect

[Al B. Sure!]

Hey I just did an auction draft for a league where we play for money so this is important It's a 10-team league with 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving, NO points per reception, 1 point per 50 yards passing, 6 points per TD's whether rushing, receiving, or passing. Also, you start 5 skill position players but no more than 2 RBs but you can start up to 2 TE's or even up to 4 WR's if you so choose. In other words, there are 2 RB/WR positions, 2 WR/TE positions, and 1 TE.

Here's who I drafted and for how much with a starting pool of $300 fake money (for comparison, AP went for $100, Aaron Rodgers for $98, Andre Johnson for $62, and Antonio Gates went for $23):

Philip Rivers $43
Eli Manning $28
Joe Flacco $14
Matt Cassel $2

Brandon Marshall $44
Michael Crabtree $22
Jeremy Maclin $9
Santana Moss $6

Ryan Grant $39
Jamaal Charles $31
Jonathon Stewart $17
Ahmad Bradshaw $7
Justin Forsett $4

Vernon Davis $17
Kellen Winslow $4

Ravens defense $3

Lawrence Tynes F/A pickup

Now, I have 4 QB's because I really was not going to let someone get Joe Flacco for $14 or even Matt Cassel for $2. I figure I can trade them later but there are some guys that I could use the roster space for, especially a sleeper receiver like Berrian or Gaffney since I'm pretty weak at WR.

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if I should cut Cassel ASAP and sign another receiver or wait to see if he truly does blow up. I figure I just need one big QB injury and I can unload Flacco but two big injuries AND Cassel playing at a top 10 level seems a bit out of reach.

[EPW]

Horrible team, sorry.

[ColdWizard]

He threw 48 TDs ten years before anyone even came close in the NFL.

He threw 48 TDs when he was 12?

[-Jrabbit]

I'm struck by the fact that you have no legit first-rounders on this team. And no one I consider first tier at QB, WR or RB (you could argue Marshall and Rivers, but only marginally).
Trade Eli. Drop Cassell. Try to get a real RB. Your receivers are fine at the top, weak underneath.
Agree that Berrian or Gaffney would be a good add.

[Al B. Sure!]

Well that's an auction draft for you. The stockpiling of QB's was, I'll admit, a gamble, but a big injury to one of the star QB's and someone will come knocking for Eli or Flacco. I came into the draft hoping to spend peanuts on a Flacco-type of guy and concentrate on other positions but these QB's were going too cheap. Flacco would've gone for $2 if I hadn't chimed in and got into a bidding war.

But the 'first round' guys were going for far too inflated rates.

RB:
AP $100
CJ $95
MJD $87
Ray Rice $80
Frank Gore $83
Michael Turner $86

WR:
Andre Johson $62
Randy Moss $57
Larry Fitz $51
Reggie Wayne $55
Roddy White $49

QB:
Aaron Rodgers $98
Drew Brees $92
Peyton Manning $90
Tom Brady $80


I don't know. considering those prices, I think I made out pretty well with Rivers for $43, Grant for $39, and Marshall for $44. I kind of spent my surplus value on QB's though but it could pay off.

One thing to note though is that in this league, the guy who has Rivers has won for like 5 straight years