Fantasy Football Discussion Thread

[MRT144]

What? What is that a response to? You do what? I didn't say you didn't anything.

I just would find it hilarious since you gave me so much grief over drafting the Browns and they've been a solid D this year and this week's game puts them into the top fantasy D's in our format. And they did it against one of the league's best offenses.

It's more a statement that your stupid sleeper picks are still stupid and nowhere near as good as my sleeper picks.

It's also a statement on how Britt alone would have made half your total score. You don't want to play me, I'll ****ing bury you.

[SlowwHand]

Sorry that I missed the Whinefest.

[Al B. Sure!]

It's more a statement that your stupid sleeper picks are still stupid and nowhere near as good as my sleeper picks.

It's also a statement on how Britt alone would have made half your total score. You don't want to play me, I'll ****ing bury you.

It wasn't about beating you. It was about you looking at 30 points from my D and being like what the ****? The Browns?!


Sloww, you missed the part where I explained why we need to change the scoring format next year and why it, as is, doesn't represent the true performance of a QB as attested by Drew Brees getting 28 points this week and sucking which happens to be the same number of fantasy points as Ben Roethlisberger who had a vastly superior day.

[Al B. Sure!]

In my other league can you believe that this combo:

Matt Cassel
Knowshon Moreno
Santana Moss
Roddy White
Ben Watson

has somehow blown my Philip Rivers, Ryan Torain, Brandon Marshall, Maclin, and Vernon Davis out of the water?

Any given Sunday.

[MRT144]

It wasn't about beating you. It was about you looking at 30 points from my D and being like what the ****? The Browns?!


Sloww, you missed the part where I explained why we need to change the scoring format next year and why it, as is, doesn't represent the true performance of a QB as attested by Drew Brees getting 28 points this week and sucking which happens to be the same number of fantasy points as Ben Roethlisberger who had a vastly superior day.

Meh, I think the scoring is fine.

[Al B. Sure!]

Meh, I think the scoring is fine.

So you're not bothered by the fact that Brees and Roethlisberger had the same fantasy points even though Big Ben WAAAAY outplayed Brees? You actually read what I wrote and don't think there's a problem? Really?

[SlowwHand]

Too much McFadden for Denver.

[Al B. Sure!]

Hey Berzerker, didn't you just trade Welker for Orton? Orton and McNabb weren't enough for you? You needed Matt Moore, too?

[flash9286]

I wouldn't mind if we nerfed QBs a little next year. I think it would make for more varied drafting strategies.

[-Jrabbit]

Within Yahoo's structure, there's no way to reward completion pct directly. Not that I would favor that, as that would just reward dinkers over downfield attackers. '

Alby, you've got to get over the idea that FF value needs to equal NFL value. It can't and it won't -- ever. Personally, I like playing in a QB-driven system, vs the "traditional" RB-powered ruleset. It may be a bit out of balance, but trying to use one-game examples to prove a point is, well, pretty pointless. There will be anomalies in any system you can devise, especially given the limitations of free providers like Yahoo.

[Berzerker]

Hey Berzerker, didn't you just trade Welker for Orton? Orton and McNabb weren't enough for you? You needed Matt Moore, too?

bye week

[Jaguar]

Within Yahoo's structure, there's no way to reward completion pct directly. Not that I would favor that, as that would just reward dinkers over downfield attackers. '

Alby, you've got to get over the idea that FF value needs to equal NFL value. It can't and it won't -- ever. Personally, I like playing in a QB-driven system, vs the "traditional" RB-powered ruleset. It may be a bit out of balance, but trying to use one-game examples to prove a point is, well, pretty pointless. There will be anomalies in any system you can devise, especially given the limitations of free providers like Yahoo.

Most importantly, FF has a consistent "attempts are good" bias for running backs, so it should have the same for QBs. Unless we want to start penalizing running backs for attempts (say, -.1 per rushing attempt, so a 1-yard rush is worth nothing) then we should allow QBs to accrue some points just for throwing the ball.

[MRT144]

I wouldn't mind if we nerfed QBs a little next year. I think it would make for more varied drafting strategies.

More varied than what we had DST? Are you kidding?

[-Jrabbit]

Most importantly, FF has a consistent "attempts are good" bias for running backs, so it should have the same for QBs. Unless we want to start penalizing running backs for attempts (say, -.1 per rushing attempt, so a 1-yard rush is worth nothing) then we should allow QBs to accrue some points just for throwing the ball.

I don't know what the D/ST league settings are, but IDP has nerfed the QBs a bit by subtracting (-0.5) per incompletion and the same (-0.5) per sack. That's how Cutler was able to achieve a negative score vs. the Giants.

[Al B. Sure!]

D/ST league is like that. I still don't see how supposedly cherry-picking examples somehow isn't a legitimate response. The point isn't that I found anomalies... the point is I found anomalies so easily! All I did was look for a QB that had about the same points as Brees (Big Ben) and compared them and Big Ben waaaay outplayed Brees to the point where it wasn't even close.

Completion % doesn't reward dink and dunk QB's any more than the current system does. Consider my hypothetical example, the second QB with LESS fantasy points had a much higher Y/A because he threw for the same number of yards but did it on half the pass attempts!

Big Ben had a higher completion % and nearly twice the Y/A as Brees yet they are equal... in fact, the advantage Brees had from merely throwing more offset his terrible 4 INT's!

Look at my example again. Technically, Brees was the dink and dunk QB this week because he had a 6.32 Y/A to Ben's 11.18 Y/A. Dink and dunking is being awarded as is because more completions = more points regardless of the yardage that comes out of those completions. Big Ben was more accurate and threw for more Y/A with close total yards... yet the fact that Brees had more total completions regardless of his completion % meant that he could offset throwing 4 picks!



My preference would be, again yahoo contingent, if we had points for set ranges of QB % and points for set ranges of Y/A (or maybe something like you get 1/2 point for each average Y/A). This probably wouldn't make the league any more or less QB-oriented than it is but it removes the fact that right now, QB's are doubly rewarded for throwing and throwing even ineffectively... they get points from the yardage and from the mere fact that they will have more completions and all their missed passes or low Y/A isn't negatively effecting them.

I can't re-iterate this example enough...


One QB throws 35/55 for 300 yards (63% completion and a miserable 5.45 Y/C so like a checkdown performance) 12.5 points from completions
Another QB throws 20/25 for 300 yards (80% completion and 12 Y/C so greatest QB performance ever pretty much) 8.75 points from completions

For that to happen, and it did happen:

Brees: 37/56 (66%) 354 yards (6.32 Y/A) and 2 TDs and 4 INTS... 28.45 fantasy points
Big Ben: 19/27 (70%) 302 yards (11.18 Y/A) and 2 TDs and 1 fumble... 28.70 fantasy points

Something is wrong. This is solely because of the fact that Brees is extra rewarded for throwing more even though he was a lot less effective at it.

Of Brees's 28.45 points, 13.75 came from his completions minus incompletions
Of Big Ben's points, ONLY 7.5 points came from his completions minus incompletions.

The difference plus the 52 extra yards is how Brees managed to offset something as TERRIBLE as 4 INT's.

Consider, INTs are -3 points so had Brees not thrown those 4 INT's, he would have had a 40.45 fantasy day!

Are you serious? You don't think something is wrong with that?

One QB throws for 354 yards with 2 TDs and a 66% completion... 40.45 fantasy points
Another throws for 302 yards with 2 TDs and a 70% completion... 31.7 fantasy points (adding back Big Ben's fumble as if it didn't happen)

Umm... yeah. Something's broken. You can't deny that!

You can even set up a scenario where a QB throws for MORE yardage, HIGHER completion %, MORE TD'S, higher Y/A, and still scores less points simply because he doesn't throw as much.

40/60 (66%) for 250 yards (4.2 Y/A) and 3 TDs... 91.6 Rating... 15 + 12.5 + 18 = 45.5
15/20 (75%) for 260 yards (13 Y/A) and 4 TDs... 156.25 Rating... 6.25 + 13 + 24 = 43.25

Now, that is an extreme example but it demonstrates the sheer power of giving points for completions and how it rewards what frankly should not be rewarded. Those extra throws can more than offset the points generated from higher yards and more TDs while things like a higher completion % and 3x the Y/A get thrown aside and have no fantasy bearing. Just as Brees' offset his 4 Interceptions

*also, Ben and Brees were each sacked 3 times so the only relevant stats for fantasy between the two of them are the ones I noted