Fantasy Football Discussion Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

Well to put it in comparison Week 1 I play this guy:

McNabb
L. McCoy
MJD
P. Harvin
D. Jackson
T. Gonzalez
Eagles D
D. Akers

My team really is not too shabby in comparison.


I wonder if I should shop around Joe Flacco now with the Housh signing or if I should wait for Flacco to start putting up numbers. They play the Jets week 1 though. Any thoughts on if Flacco's fantasy value is its highest now?

[Solomwi]

Is there a reason you are leaving out his record? He was 6-3 with the '88 Pats. That's pretty good. The team was 6-3 with him, and 3-4 without him, so they were significantly better with Flutie at the helm.

How many players do you know with a .667 win percentage who don't get the opportunity to start the next season? Flutie's the only one I can see. Not to mention this was his THIRD team!

That NE team was expected to go 7-9, but Flutie made them 2 games better than they otherwise would have been. Every team that Flutie has been behind has been better because of him.

Why was his passer rating so low?

Lines like this one: 6-18 165 yards 4 TDs.

That's right. With 6 completions, he threw for 27.5+ yards per completion. Even though he only completed a third of his passes, he was still averaging a very respectable 9.1 yards per attempt!

All his lines are like this. Few attempts (not more than 20), lots of TDs, lots of INTs, very high yards per completion and yards per attempt. The result is a deceptively low passer rating. Passer rating is geared towards players with these types of lines, 30-40 300 yards, 2 TDs 1 INT. Yet, even with the hypothetical 300 yards, Flutie was a more effective passer.

Way to pick his only multi-TD game of that season to make your case. You also realize he had a rating of 107.6 for that game, right? For grins, here are a few more Flutie lines from '88:

17-33-163-0-3-27.7
5-16-58-1-0-64.1
7-14-74-1-1-59.8
6-20-78-1-2-20.4
15-24-190-0-1-69.8

Those games seem like better reasons for his not all that deceptively low passer rating than the one you cited. Take out the "lots of TDs" and "very high yards per completion and yards per attempt," and your description of his typical line would be more accurate.

[Al B. Sure!]

Way to pick his only multi-TD game of that season to make your case. You also realize he had a rating of 107.6 for that game, right? For grins, here are a few more Flutie lines from '88:

17-33-163-0-3-27.7
5-16-58-1-0-64.1
7-14-74-1-1-59.8
6-20-78-1-2-20.4
15-24-190-0-1-69.8

Those games seem like better reasons for his not all that deceptively low passer rating than the one you cited. Take out the "lots of TDs" and "very high yards per completion and yards per attempt," and your description of his typical line would be more accurate.

I already showed that Doug Flutie's career TD% places him 125th all time and his yards per attempt places him 124th. So no lots of TDs and very high yards per attempt, at least no more than Ron Jaworski or Tommy Maddox. But facts do not exist in the Beniverse.

I would still take Jaws any day over Flutie though.

Oh yeah and Ben's supposed worst QB of all time, Rob Johnson had a 3.7 TD% to Flutie's 4.0 and a 7.2 Y/A to Flutie's 6.8. That's similar enough that to say Flutie is the greatest and Johnson the worst is completely nonsensical. They're close enough to being the same talent level.


And since it's always fun when dealing with the Beniverse to show his logic and in this case pick a single game to represent a player's entire career... check it.

While starting for the Jaguars against the Ravens on Week 1 of the 1997 season, Rob Johnson went 20 of 24 (83%!) for 294 yards and 2 TD's (a QB rating of 145.5); he also scrambled for 31 yards and 1 TD.

Holy ****! That's like Steve Young stat-line! Rob Johnson is the best QB of all time! He's like an even better Steve Young! Extrapolated over a full 16 game season had he been able to start over the 'terrible' Mark Brunell, Rob Johnson would have thrown 4700 yards, 32 TDs, 0 INTs, and ran for 496 yards and 16 TD's!

[Al B. Sure!]

But wait even on the Bills, Rob Johnson showed he was clearly superior to Doug Flutie.

1998 season:
Week 3: 110.9 QB rating (18/28 231yds 3tds 1int)
Week 4: 112.3 QB rating (19/27 254yds 1td)

After those two games, injuries to Johnson allowed Flutie to take over but Rob Johnson came back strong...
Week 16: 147.2 QB rating (12/18 216yds 3tds and 1 rushing td)

How did Flutie get the starting job the next year? When Flutie was benched for the last game of the next season, Rob Johnson came right back where he left off after not starting for a year:

Week 16 of 1999 season: 122.8 QB rating (24/32 287yds 2tds)



See how a slightly less crazy Beniverse logic makes Rob Johnson look so much better than Flutie? At least I cited like 5 games instead of one

[-Jrabbit]

I'd also like to point out that, when an NFL QB (in the modern era) gets less than 20 attempts in a game, it's generally due to one of two things:

1. The team has a kick-ass running game (either in genral, or on a game-plan basis against that week's opponent), or
2. The coach does not trust his QB.

[Solomwi]

True, and note that New England's top rusher in each of those years was John Stephens, averaging 3.9 and 3.4 ypc.

[Al B. Sure!]

Earth to Beniverse?

[Al B. Sure!]

Sigh... the season can't start soon enough.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doug Flutie career TD % (TD's/pass attempt) was 4.0; His career yards/attempt was 6.8.

Sigh. Let's go back again. You were asking why his passer rating in that one year was so poor. I went into some of those lines, and found that he had a very high yards per attempt.

I'm not arguing career-wise. If you take out the years from 26 to 38, do you think that will form a representative sample of a player's career? No. Is the 26 year old Flutie going to be the same as the 38 year old Flutie? No.

Yards/attempt, he's tied for 124th all-time with the likes of Ron Jaworski, Aaron Brooks, Doug Williams, and (surprisingly) Rich Gannon.

I'm not surprised. Take out the prime quarterbacking years, late 20's, early 30's and his career stats aren't going to measure up. I'd be curious how he'd stand up to these other players if you took both ends.

Flutie is really hard to assess stats wise based on his career.

Where Flutie was actually pretty good was in his INT% actually.

Yes, by the end of his career, he was very good, and got much better. At the start, not so much.

I never made any career-wise claims. I was only looking at that one year.

[Ben Kenobi]

How did Flutie get the starting job the next year?

Johnson did as he always does, and got injured. He took 5 sacks per game. When you get beat out by a 38 year old guy that's pretty bad, especially over durability issues.

As for trust, I agree that the Bears and Pats didn't trust him. That's why they passed on one of the greatest quarterbacks in his generation. Until Brady, were either team known for their ability to develop quarterbacks?

[Al B. Sure!]

Johnson did as he always does, and got injured. He took 5 sacks per game. When you get beat out by a 38 year old guy that's pretty bad, especially over durability issues.

As for trust, I agree that the Bears and Pats didn't trust him. That's why they passed on one of the greatest quarterbacks in his generation. Until Brady, were either team known for their ability to develop quarterbacks?

Holy ****!

[Al B. Sure!]

Alright... I think my face is red from the biggest facepalm in the history of humanity...

Doug Flutie was drafted in 1985 by the LA Rams where he couldn't get past the practice squad. That means his generation includes Joe Montana, Steve Young, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms, Randall Cunningham... HOLY ****ING ****!

[Ben Kenobi]

Doug Flutie was drafted in 1985 by the LA Rams where he couldn't get past the practice squad. That means his generation includes Joe Montana, Steve Young, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms, Randall Cunningham... HOLY ****ING ****!

Flutie was born in '62.

Young, Marino, were better. Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham. All the others are either too young (Aikman) or too old, (Montana, Moon, Simms)

[Al B. Sure!]

Flutie was born in '62.

Young, Marino, were better. Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham. All the others are either too young (Aikman) or too old, (Montana, Moon, Simms)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MRT144]

Better than elway...wow.

Ignore list for sanity.