Who do you tip to win the US presidential election

[Kidlicious]

I agree that the violence is just bad, but the majority of it is coming from the counter-protestors. And they started it. And Trump encouraged it because he figures it will save his election.

I was not arguing for the violence from the protestors to stop for the election. I had already said that the protestors (And the counter-protestors) had a moral and ethical duty to disarm. I was arguing that the peaceful and non-violent protestors, who are the majority of protestors everywhere or almost everywhere (I am not sure about Kenosha, but that has been the case even in Portland) should stand down for the election.

The protestors should get together, talk about the local political elections that will happen in most places on November 3, about how they can vote and vote safely, and then go home.

JM

This is not about people having guns. This is about the left rioting, destroying property and attacking people. You say you ate against the violence then you talk about people having guns. People see clear through that. If you're against the violence then come out against the Democrats instead of lying and talking about people having guns to defend property and themselves.

[-Jrabbit]

You are full of it. This is not about "the left" doing anything. This is about cynical "law and order" election messaging - the same tired tactic of coded racism and false comparisons used by Nixon and Reagan. It's pure gaslighting, and a clear attempt to equate legitimate protest over real issues, with violent lawlessness. It's a fear tactic. It attempts to suggest that all Democrats support violence, and that all civic unrest is by Democrats, and oh BTW, that includes all those scary brown people. It's a morally corrupt, fundamentally dishonest series of calculated lies. GOP sheep will follow through repetition, and brainwashed wannabe fascists like Kid will do their part by spreading the lies.

[Jon Miller]

This is not about people having guns. This is about the left rioting, destroying property and attacking people. You say you ate against the violence then you talk about people having guns. People see clear through that. If you're against the violence then come out against the Democrats instead of lying and talking about people having guns to defend property and themselves.

Most of the violence I have seen has come from the counter-protestors. The people who initially brought the guns were the counter-protestors. I remember conversations with radical leftists back in June or something where the conversation was what to do about the armed counter-protestors who were attacking the protestors. There were some arguments in favor of arming (The idea being that then the protestors would not be attacked). Others warned against it and seemed, at the time, to have 'won'.

Now the protestors are armed.

JM
(The radical left does not support Biden at all, so he and other Democratic leadership have no sway with them.)

[Kidlicious]

34 dead JM. How many on each side?

[-Jrabbit]

It's the boogaloos and self-styled "militia" who have the guns, my friend. If a person of color open-carries an assault rifle during a protest, they are immediately confronted and arrested. Oh, and the number of dead is currently 187,248.

[Kidlicious]

Stop trying to gaslight people.

[-Jrabbit]

Trump is the gaslighter. You are among his legions of simpleminded victims.

[Kidlicious]

Dp

[Jon Miller]

If I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen...rotests#Deaths it is incomplete.I am not including deaths caused by the police or the deaths of police officers or ones with unclear attribution.

I get (The person who died is in () )
August 29 (counter protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
July 5 (counter protestor)
July 4 (protestor)
June 27 (protestor)
June 3 (protestor)
June 2 (protestor)
June 2 (counter protestor)
May 31 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 27 (protestor)

It is likely that several more protestors and counter-protestors died due to being killed by the other side (from the ones listed where the attribution is unclear), which will make the overall numbers more even. However, there are a lot more protestors than counter-protestors. And the police have killed a number of protestors as well.

JM

[Kidlicious]

If I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen...rotests#Deaths it is incomplete.I am not including deaths caused by the police or the deaths of police officers or ones with unclear attribution.

I get (The person who died is in () )
August 29 (counter protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
July 5 (counter protestor)
July 4 (protestor)
June 27 (protestor)
June 3 (protestor)
June 2 (protestor)
June 2 (counter protestor)
May 31 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 27 (protestor)

It is likely that several more protestors and counter-protestors died due to being killed by the other side (from the ones listed where the attribution is unclear), which will make the overall numbers more even. However, there are a lot more protestors than counter-protestors. And the police have killed a number of protestors as well.

JM

You better count police being murdered. The leftists did that. You don't have a problem with police getting murdered?!

So the first person on that list is a looter. He was shot by the store owner defending his store. That's not a murder. A murder is, for example, shooting someone for saying all lives matter. Did you include that person?

I'm check all that in a bit.

[-Jrabbit]

The Oakland law enforcement official talked about in Pence's speech was murdered by a right-wing anarchist. Conveniently ignored by Pence, because the RNC was all about gaslighting the narrative in an attempt to demonize the opposition. It's sick and immoral, and you, Kid, support it blindly.

[Kidlicious]

A store owner is not a counter-protester. He is someone that shot someone destroying his property. Good grief.

[Kidlicious]

May 28th a man died because of arson, not even on your list. I'm disregarding your list. It's ridiculous.

[Kidlicious]

Most of the deaths aren't the result of conflicts between rival groups. They can't be classified as such. Some can. Rather it's stuff like a 8 year old being shot through a car because of one of these road blocks.

[Jon Miller]

I don't count the police killed by the counter-protestor back in May. Nor the protestors killed by police.

The man died of arson, it did not seem that he was a counter-protestor. It seemed adjacent but not easily attributable (the relevant numbers are deaths of counter protestors by protestors and of protestors by counter protestors) to the conflict between groups. I agree that his death was caused by the protestors. That wasn't what I was counting.

The May 27 death attribution depends on how the store owner was defending his property whether it is relevant or adjacent, I agree. Due to the language and response I took it to be a protestor/counter-protestor interaction but erring on the side of caution would be not to include it.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Most of the deaths aren't the result of conflicts between rival groups. They can't be classified as such. Some can. Rather it's stuff like a 8 year old being shot through a car because of one of these road blocks.

I agree, a lot of the deaths are adjacent. And are a reason why there shouldn't be conflict between groups and the groups should not be armed.

JM
(the deaths of police and the deaths caused by police are also adjacent)

[Kidlicious]

What needs to happen is the police stop all this, but it's the Democrats that are hesitant to allow them to stop it. So I have no problem with people defending their property and I support castle doctrine. Many of those deaths are the result of inaction. And I'll include Republicans too because now I remember that the Gov of Georgia only sent the Gaurd to Atlanta after an 8 yr old was shot.

[Kidlicious]

I don't count the police killed by the counter-protestor back in May. Nor the protestors killed by police.

The man died of arson, it did not seem that he was a counter-protestor. It seemed adjacent but not easily attributable (the relevant numbers are deaths of counter protestors by protestors and of protestors by counter protestors) to the conflict between groups. I agree that his death was caused by the protestors. That wasn't what I was counting.

The May 27 death attribution depends on how the store owner was defending his property whether it is relevant or adjacent, I agree. Due to the language and response I took it to be a protestor/counter-protestor interaction but erring on the side of caution would be not to include it.

JM

Executions of cops should only be compared to executions of black men or leftist groups. The left executes police, and that definitely needs to be counted.

[-Jrabbit]

See again: Oakland boogaloo murders federal officer

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-16/suspects-charged-killing-santa-cruz-cop-and-oakland-federal-officer

This was a direct and intentional attack on a federal officer. It was murder, using the George Floyd protests as cover.

[Kidlicious]

And that has nothing to do with us. But you support cop killers, not Trump.

[-Jrabbit]

Why are you two trying to adjudicate conflicting details? It's ridiculous. Kid will reject any evidence he finds inconvenient, and he will continue to suggest that his own copy-and-paste scary stories prove his fascist point.

[Kidlicious]

We'll take being against setting up road blocks and then shooting up cars killing 8 yr olds. If you don't take a stand on that we'll take it. We'll take law and order. You want to call that fascist go ahead. I'll keep laughing.

[-Jrabbit]

Fvck you. No one supports killing, especially of 8-year-olds. No one. And your false-flag "take a stand" suggestion is disingenuous, straight-up McCarthyism.

Perhaps if Rayshard Brooks hadn't been murdered by Atlanta police at a nearby Wendy's a few days earlier, the protest would not have happened. Perhaps if the Republican governor had called in the National Guard, it would have been dispersed. But all you can focus on is finding a way to blame "them."

[Kidlicious]

You should have called for law and order. Maybe she would still be alive. You should call for law and order now but you don't. So fck you buddy.

[-Jrabbit]

As always, ignoring the factual root causes of the situation. You should be opposing the murder that triggered the protests.