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  • Originally posted by Dinner View Post

    What do you think tye Saturday Night Massacre was about? Hell, Trump just replicated it and for the exact same reasons. To shut the investigation down because he knows what it will find.
    The Saturday Night Massacre was the results of the Nixon Tapes. Nixon only turned over summaries, but Cox wanted the entire tapes. So Nixon had him fired. The result was a big loss is support for Nixon. So it's not just a matter of Nixon firing him, which is your claim. It's the tapes.
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

    Comment


    • Kidicious
      Kidicious commented
      Editing a comment
      The way I understand it many people still supported him until the tapes.

    • -Jrabbit
      -Jrabbit commented
      Editing a comment
      Destroying evidence was a tipping point, moreso than access to the tapes.
      Nixon was in deep doo-doo before the taping system was even known.

    • Kidicious
      Kidicious commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes, he destroyed evidence. That was a much bigger problem.

  • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post
    Honestly, this sounds like a bad ruling. Obama could extra legally create it with an executive order but the next president cannot end it with an executive order? I suspect this will end up in the SCotUS who will rule in favor of the administration.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

    Comment


    • If I understand correctly, someone sued Trump over him ending it, and the courts are merely delaying the end of DACA until the outcome of the lawsuit has been determined.

      Comment


      • "We conclude that plaintiffs are likely to succeed on their claim that the rescission of DACA -- at least as justified on this record -- is arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not in accordance with law," reads the opinion from Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw, an appointee of President Bill Clinton.
        https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/polit...uit/index.html

        I guess the premise is that the president has to have a good reason for issuing an executive order?

        Comment


        • Proteus_MST
          Proteus_MST commented
          Editing a comment
          Could this argument make the majority of Trumps EOs invalid?

      • I haven't read the latest ruling but previous claims are that Trump is biased or has some animus, which is no doubt true. Of course, Obama also was biased. It may revolve around some procedural argument or, then again, it might just be partisan hackery.

        Either way rule by executive order is not a great idea even if each side loves it when their sides does it and hates it when the other side does it. Just for logical consistency's sake I truly expect the courts to ultimately rule that whatever can be created via executive fiat can equally be undone by executive fiat. It is not like we are talking about acts of Congress here.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

        Comment


        • Seems to me like the counterargument on the ground s of "good reason" is a good one.
          There seems to be no good reason to just end DACA for those who are currently part of the program.

          After all the majority of them seems to be useful members of the US society, who are not under criminal investigation ... who are jobs and/or are studying.
          The only reason for ending it for everyone (and not only preventing new applicants for coming under DACA) seems to lie in Trumps racism
          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

          Comment


          • You are inserting yourself and your desires into something which has zero to do that. Executive orders are just that and nothing more and there is nothing written which says they have to be good or have any reason what so ever. Congress never passed a law authorizing DACA, it was just an EO signed by Obama, so it stands to reason it can be undone by an EO.

            it really does seem some judges just don't like to see DACA eliminated ergo they are trying to invent invalid reasons to block it. That will rightly get struck down by the SCotUS.

            If Dems want something like DACA then they need to pass a law through Congress and have it signed by the President. You will notice they have never done that not even during 2008-2010 when they controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency. So this amounts to little more than sour grapes which are not valid legal defenses.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dinner View Post
              You are inserting yourself and your desires into something which has zero to do that. ...
              I wouldn't call it "my desires" ... rather my belief for fairness and morals.
              Those protected by DACA (and now possibly getting expulsed) were not sesponsible for their situation ... neither did they, themselves decide to the USA (that was done by their parents), nor did they (as a group) do anything that lets it appear valid grounds to revoke their protection again. They are just a playing ball in the hands of as man-baby with an oversized Ego who, for inexplicable reasons, became PotUS.
              Fact is that Donnies actions against DACA will create a wave of distrust of Hispanics against the US government (after all those in DACA freely gave their addresses/names away to the government in hope, now getting somehow legally recvognized and not having to stay in hiding anymore ... hopes that Trump repeatedly tries to shatter with no good reason at all (except for appeasing the racists among his fans and making a boogey man out of the Latinos)

              Whether or not Donnies revoking of DACA via EO is correct ... dunno ... maybe you are right and it is correct, on procedural grounds ... or maybe the reasoning in the article spambot quoted is right and the attempts to stop Donnie from revoking DACA will prevail over Trumps attempts in fighting it
              Last edited by Proteus_MST; November 9, 2018, 11:16.
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                I wouldn't call it "my desires" ... rather my belief for fairness and morals.
                Those protected by DACA (and now possibly getting expulsed) were not sesponsible for their situation ... neither did they, themselves decide to the USA (that was done by their parents), nor did they (as a group) do anything that lets it appear valid grounds to revoke their protection again. They are just a playing ball in the hands of as man-baby with an oversized Ego who, for inexplicable reasons, became PotUS.
                Fact is that Donnies actions against DACA will create a wave of distrust of Hispanics against the US government (after all those in DACA freely gave their addresses/names away to the government in hope, now getting somehow legally recvognized and not having to stay in hiding anymore ... hopes that Trump repeatedly tries to shatter with no good reason at all (except for appeasing the racists among his fans and making a boogey man out of the Latinos)

                Whether or not Donnies revoking of DACA via EO is correct ... dunno ... maybe you are right and it is correct, on procedural grounds ... or maybe the reasoning in the article spambot quoted is right and the attempts to stop Donnie from revoking DACA will prevail over Trumps attempts in fighting it
                If you are going to claim to hold your opinion on moral grounds don't also state that people are against DACA because of racism, because then you are saying that you don't really have morals.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment


                • http://fortune.com/2018/10/17/edible-cotton-gmo/

                  This is going to be big and this is why GMO is going to be so key to feeding the world in the future. Cotton is one of the world's most widely produced cash crops and for every pound of cotton lint grown there are 1.5 pounds of cotton seeds that go with it. Those seeds would be highly nutritious but cotton also produces it's on pesticide in order to protect the seeds from insects. That natural pesticide makes cotton seeds inedible.

                  Now a new genetically modified cotton plant has been produced in the U.S. with the poison removed from both the seeds and leaves. What does this mean?

                  It means farmers can now not only grow cotton for its lint but they will now also be able to harvest highly nutritious seeds while the leaves (which used to just get plowed under due to the fact that they were poisonous to livestock) can now be used as fodder for livestock. It used to be just the fibers were useful but now farmers will get their regular crop of cotton fiber plus the seeds as a food and oil crop plus fodder for livestock all in the same fields.

                  That is a big increase in agricultural productivity for one of the world's most widely grown crops.
                  Last edited by Dinner; November 9, 2018, 11:58.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                  Comment


                  • pchang
                    pchang commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Right up until bugs wipe out the crops......

                • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                  If you are going to claim to hold your opinion on moral grounds don't also state that people are against DACA because of racism, because then you are saying that you don't really have morals.
                  I don't see any other reason than racism for stopping DACA for existing recipients
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                    I don't see any other reason than racism for stopping DACA for existing recipients
                    Yeah you do. It's a simple matter of listening to the other sides argument.
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                      I don't see any other reason than racism for stopping DACA for existing recipients
                      I can see several justifications. 1) Many people saw Obama's original move creating it as illegal to began with as it contravened laws which had actually been passed by Congress as the constitution detailed. 2) Many people really do believe illegal should mean illegal and that law breakers should never given amnesty. 3) If Dems want to change the law then they need to go through Congress to do so.

                      Then you get into the procedural arguments about any president having absolute power to repeal any executive order for any reason he so pleases and courts legally have no say in the matter, at all, other than to review them for constitutionality. I don't see how anyone can argue with that last part so, of course, Trump has the power to end it via EO if Obama ever had the power to create it via EO.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                        I wouldn't call it "my desires" ... rather my belief for fairness and morals.
                        Those protected by DACA (and now possibly getting expulsed) were not sesponsible for their situation ... neither did they, themselves decide to the USA (that was done by their parents), nor did they (as a group) do anything that lets it appear valid grounds to revoke their protection again. They are just a playing ball in the hands of as man-baby with an oversized Ego who, for inexplicable reasons, became PotUS.
                        Fact is that Donnies actions against DACA will create a wave of distrust of Hispanics against the US government (after all those in DACA freely gave their addresses/names away to the government in hope, now getting somehow legally recvognized and not having to stay in hiding anymore ... hopes that Trump repeatedly tries to shatter with no good reason at all (except for appeasing the racists among his fans and making a boogey man out of the Latinos)

                        Whether or not Donnies revoking of DACA via EO is correct ... dunno ... maybe you are right and it is correct, on procedural grounds ... or maybe the reasoning in the article spambot quoted is right and the attempts to stop Donnie from revoking DACA will prevail over Trumps attempts in fighting it
                        Great! Write your Congressman and start a political action committee advocating for Congress to take action. That is your proper legal recourse. What is not proper is to have politically motivated partisan hacks who pretend to be judges making up excuses and justifications whole cloth without even the slightest veneer of the word of law or legality.

                        Trying to devine the Executive's motivations in his inner most heart of hearts is a stupid and fruitless endeavor which is not going to stand up in court. As long as the executive can state an even semi-plausable excuse which does not violate the constitution then that is the ONLY constitutional review proper for the courts to do, period.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                        Comment


                        • While normally I would agree that any EO can be overturned by another EO, I look at this one as a promise made to these people that was made in good faith. I would have no problem with going with no new entries into the program. But I would like to think this country is better than yanking the rug out from these people that have done nothing wrong and their being here was not of their choice. Trumps action comes off as just mean and petty like a lot of his decisions. It may energize his base but it makes the entire country look like him.
                          It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                          RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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