Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

Ben believes Religious freedom means only the freedom to believe in the Catholic Church and not other faiths, and that only Catholics are free to believe what they want and not others. He ignores the fact that can people can have their own beliefs and think the Catholic Church is full of ****.

Absolutely, but I also think Ben believes that he has the right to force his views onto gay people and that they should stop being who they are.

I'm from a Catholic background, but the Church is something I will never turn towards. The Catholic Church is one of the most hypocritical and horribly corrupt organizations out there. I'm pretty much agnostic now and glad to be. I don't believe in a set of arbitrary cherrypicked "sins" either.

[Ming]

True... it's bad enough that Catholic priests were raping children... what is really bad is that as an organizations, they covered it up simply to protect the name of the church. They didn't give a damn about the victims.

This is not an organization that the majority of people would want to dictate laws in this land. But that's the whole point of Religious Freedoms and separation of Church and State... NO RELIGION SHOULD BE ALLOWED to dictate laws in this land.

[Dauphin]

Ben believes Religious freedom means only the freedom to believe in what he believes in and nothing else, and that only he is free to believe whatever he wants and no-one else. He ignores the fact that he is full of ****.

FTFY

[Giancarlo]

True... it's bad enough that Catholic priests were raping children... what is really bad is that as an organizations, they covered it up simply to protect the name of the church. They didn't give a damn about the victims.

This is not an organization that the majority of people would want to dictate laws in this land. But that's the whole point of Religious Freedoms and separation of Church and State... NO RELIGION SHOULD BE ALLOWED to dictate laws in this land.

Covered it up? I think it was worse. They were complicit in it... they moved around abusing priests to other parishes to abuse more children.

People think this only happen(ed) in the US... no... it happens in South America, in Europe, etc... and girls were abused too (that's one that isn't really talked about much).

http://religionnews.com/2016/05/05/catholic-order-covered-up-for-irish-priest-who-molested-more-than-100-girls/

http://cathnews.com/archives/cath-news-archive/25145-report-says-irish-order-covered-for-priest-who-molested-100-girls

BTW these are two pro-religion news sources and they even brought it up.

This one particular horrific case happened in Ireland.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't believe it is "wrong". I believe that if you lie, people will have difficulty in trusting you or believing you. And that is not a pleasant scenario for the liar and the one hearing the lies.

Then you seem to equate the virtue of 'trust' with 'telling the truth'. I wouldn't have taken you for a virtue ethicist.

[Ben Kenobi]

NO RELIGION SHOULD BE ALLOWED to dictate laws in this land.

That's been said before, by many others, not in America. And certainly not in the First Amendment.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm from a Catholic background, but the Church is something I will never turn towards. The Catholic Church is one of the most hypocritical and horribly corrupt organizations out there

Baptised? Confirmed?

[Giancarlo]

That's been said before, by many others, not in America. And certainly not in the First Amendment.

THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T ALLOW RELIGION TO ESTABLISH LAWS IN AMERICA.

America is NOT a country where religious laws should have any basis. If you want a nation that implements religious laws, go visit Uganda.

[Giancarlo]

Baptised? Confirmed?

Baptized and confirmed.

But I don't give two ****s about the Church. Like many people in Spain. Like many others in Latin America.

The amount of child abuse done by the hands of Priests and ACTIVELY COVERED up the church globally was disgusting.

The church telling me my sexual orientation is a "sin" and is "wrong" doesn't mean anything. They aren't to be trusted about ANYTHING.

[Ming]

All the bishops immediately came out and corrected him

Please provide a cite for this claim... One that says that ALL THE BISHOPS IMMEDIATELY came out and corrected him.
Oh, that's right, you can't. Your claim that EVERY Bishop did so immediately is yet another lie. You sinned once again.

[Ben Kenobi]

You sir are a LYING MORON. I am DEFINED by it as it is PART OF MY LIFE. It is PART OF WHO I AM. You being a liar is something you choose to be. And being a liar is wrong because you CHOOSE to be a DISHONEST LYING SCOUNDREL. That is A CHOICE YOU MAKE. I did NOT choose to be gay

And that - is the crux of the matter. You believe that the Church is lying when St. Paul says the following:

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Which is it, Giancarlo? You both cannot be right. Either Saint Paul is right and you are wrong, or St. Paul is wrong and you are right

[Ben Kenobi]

THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T ALLOW RELIGION TO ESTABLISH LAWS IN AMERICA.

Uh- it protects the Church from the state, not the other way around. Where does the phrase 'separation of church and state' appear anywhere in the 1st Amendment?

[Ben Kenobi]

Baptized and confirmed.

Then this is not an issue with religious freedom at all. You, Ming and me are all Catholics. This is an issue between you and Ming both making a promise to God and then breaking your promise. You have no recourse by saying, "perhaps others cannot be judged", because both you and Ming are Catholics and bound to what the Church teaches - because you both made promises before God.

[Giancarlo]

And that - is the crux of the matter. You believe that the Church is lying when St. Paul says the following:



Which is it, Giancarlo? You both cannot be right. Either Saint Paul is right and you are wrong, or St. Paul is wrong and you are right

ABsolutely I believe the Church is lying. The Church is lying and Saint Paul is wrong. What a dip**** that guy must have been.

Why don't they make a child molester a Saint? Oh they probably have already done that.

The Church is absolutely full of ****. I wonder if they use the King James version of the Bible... King James was totally gay and many knew it during his time.

[Giancarlo]

Then this is not an issue with religious freedom at all. You, Ming and me are all Catholics. This is an issue between you and Ming both making a promise to God and then breaking your promise. You have no recourse by saying, "perhaps others cannot be judged", because both you and Ming are Catholics and bound to what the Church teaches - because you both made promises before God.

Was.

That's the key word. I turned my back on the church of corruption and child molestation. I'm not making a promise with anyone (EXCEPT MYSELF!). I'm agnostic. I don't even believe god exists (certainly not in the Christian form).

You are lying once again. You have no right to speak for me. I'm not bound by their rules as I am NOT part of the Church of corruption and child molestation.