Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

Then you're going to have to start answering my question about "why isn't it discrimination for the Catholic church to not have women as priests?"

The Catholic adopting agencies fall under the law of the state. Period.

[Ming]

If you're not following the catechism, you're not Catholic.

Yet again, you have no proof that I am or not following the catechism. I'm simply against hate and discrimination. Please quote in the catechism where it supports either.

And that's my point. You complain that I'm the 'ultimate authority', and then turn around and say, "this is where the Church is wrong". In essence you are arguing that you have better moral standard than the Catholic church.

I have stated that the Catholic Church has no right to force others to believe what they believe. I really believe in religious freedom because I respect and love my neighbors.
While I can follow the teachings of the Church, I believe that people should be allowed to follow their own beliefs.

You are the only one arguing that you have a better moral standard than the Pope and it's Bishops.
The church does not stand for discrimination and hate. You should listen to the Pope... a very wise man a true Christian.

And one more time, please quote where I have ever said that the state should come for Catholics.
Your response above makes no sense. I don't know how you can interpret that I cheer for illegal discriminators to be prosecuted as that I support the state coming after Catholics.

If Catholics or any other person break the law and discriminate, they should be prosecuted. I'm not picking on just Catholics, I'm picking on all bigots.

[Ming]

Some things can be accommodated. Forcing the Church to place children without a mother or a father, is something that we cannot accommodate.

If the Catholic church doesn't want to place children in loving homes, then they shouldn't be in the business. If they want to discriminate and leave children in heartless institutions then they aren't thinking about the children.

Discrimination is illegal... it's that simple.

[Ming]

Lest we forget about the OP

Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from homosexuals for the way they had treated them.

Speaking to reporters aboard the plane taking him back to Rome from Armenia, he also said the Church should ask forgiveness for the way it has treated women, for turning a blind eye to child labor and for "blessing so many weapons" in the past.

In the hour-long freewheeling conversation that has become a trademark of his international travels, Francis was asked if he agreed with recent comments by a German Roman Catholic cardinal that the Church should apologize to gays.

Francis looked sad when the reporter asked if an apology was made more urgent by the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando, Florida this month.

He recalled Church teachings that homosexuals "should not be discriminated against. They should be respected, accompanied pastorally."

He added: "I think that the Church not only should apologize ... to a gay person whom it offended but it must also apologize to the poor as well, to the women who have been exploited, to children who have been exploited by (being forced to) work. It must apologize for having blessed so many weapons."

The Church teaches that homosexual tendencies are not sinful but homosexual acts are, and that homosexuals should try to be chaste.

Francis repeated a slightly modified version of the now-famous "Who am I to judge?" comment he made about gays on the first foreign trip after his election in 2013.

"The questions is: if a person who has that condition, who has good will, and who looks for God, who are we to judge?"

FORGIVENESS, NOT JUST APOLOGY

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that the pope, by saying "has that condition", did not imply a medical condition but "a person in that situation". In Italian, the word "condition" can also mean "situation".

"We Christians have to apologize for so many things, not just for this (treatment of gays), but we must ask for forgiveness, not just apologize! Forgiveness! Lord, it is a word we forget so often!" he said.

BK... please follow the teachings of a great Catholic, our Pope.
Maybe you should read this again and try to learn something.
You are the exact type of person he is trying to reach.

[Ben Kenobi]

The Catholic adopting agencies fall under the law of the state. Period.

Then why aren't the Catholic schools being forced to hire homosexual men and women to teach?

[Ben Kenobi]

If the Catholic church doesn't want to place children in loving homes, then they shouldn't be in the business. If they want to discriminate and leave children in heartless institutions

Actually, with adoption placements down - it's you who are depriving a child of a loving home.

You are the exact type of person he is trying to reach.

LOL. Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm the exact type of person he doesn't give a damn about.

I'm very thankful for Pope John Paul II and der Panzerkardinel. They cared about folks like me.

[Ben Kenobi]

you have no proof that I am or not following the catechism. I'm simply against hate and discrimination.

Labelling those who defend what the Catholic church teaches on marriage as 'bigots' is contrary to the catechism. You have an obligation - that you signed on for to stand up for what the Catholic church teaches. All I can do is remind you of that fact.

[Ming]

Actually, with adoption placements down - it's you who are depriving a child of a loving home.

Not me... just the Catholics institutions that don't give a damn about the children. They would rather deny a child a hope for a loving home than follow the law.

LOL. Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm the exact type of person he doesn't give a damn about.

No... he cares for your soul... and that's why he is targeting bigots like you with his message of love and forgiveness.
You are exactly who he is talking to. But your response pretty much shows what type of person you are.

[Ben Kenobi]

Now this is improved and there are no slaves and women also have rights.

Without the Greeks - the whole concept of a "Right" is meaningless.

[Ben Kenobi]

They would rather deny a child a hope for a loving home than follow the law.

How so? They would be perfectly happy to do placements as a Catholic organization. Why must they choose between their faith and their works?

[Ming]

Labelling those who defend what the Catholic church teaches on marriage as 'bigots' is contrary to the catechism. You have an obligation - that you signed on for to stand up for what the Catholic church teaches. All I can do is remind you of that fact.

Again... nobody is forcing you or I to marry another man. Nobody is forcing the Catholic church to marry gay couples (and don't bother with your gloom and doom it's coming crap... it's a simple fact right now that it isn't happening) And I have no problem with the church's teachings. I do have a problem with the Catholic church trying to force others not of the faith to bow to their teachings. I believe in religious freedom for ALL, not just Catholics. I will not discriminate or spew hate like you do. I believe and support the words of our Pope. Love, not Hate. Understanding, not discrimination.

[Ming]

How so? They would be perfectly happy to do placements as a Catholic organization. Why must they choose between their faith and their works?

The law doesn't allow them to discriminate. They are not judging couples on their ability to provide a loving home, but simply because of their sexual orientation. That is discrimination and against the law. If they don't want to do the job of placing children in loving homes, they should get out of the business or be closed.
Again, they would rather deny a child a hope for a loving home than follow the law. They obviously don't care about the children... which is the mission for placement agencies.

[Ben Kenobi]

he cares for your soul... and that's why he is targeting bigots like you with his message of love and forgiveness.

Right. No - he doesn't care for my soul. There are many he has and will continue to lose, folks who have lost faith, folks who have drifted away. He is willing to play games with other people's eternal salvation.

I have two friends that I care deeply for - one is a convert like me and the other grew up Catholic. We're all struggling along together. The other two, one has left and subsequently came back, and the other is very troubled. Both of them are fantastic people, married with families. Both of them are the anchors for their families - keeping them and their families in the Faith.

We're talking the eternal salvation of about 15 people, all told - between both families. Francis is not helping them in their daily lives - Francis has troubled them to the extent that they don't feel that they have a place. They are in because they believe what Christ was told, "Lord to whom else will we go? You have the promise of eternal life.

They believe that their sufferings here - have a purpose for them in heaven.

No, Ming - Francis does not care. If he actually *did* care, he'd be a very different pope.

[Ben Kenobi]

The law doesn't allow them to discriminate. They are not judging couples on their ability to provide a loving home, but simply because of their sexual orientation.

How? They wouldn't adopt out to a single man or a single woman for the same reason.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ming - why don't either you or Giancarlo answer the question - as to why it is not discrimination for the Catholic church to only have male priests?