Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

The Catholic church teaches clearly that willfully depriving a child of a mother or a father is wrong. They had a choice between being Catholic or being an adoption agency, which is a straight up violation of the First Amendment.

No it isn't. Actually read the first amendment. Please. you know nothing about it.

[Giancarlo]

Then why aren't the Catholic schools being forced to hire homosexual men and women to teach?

They should be. But adoptions are under the auspices of the state. Private Catholic colleges aren't.

[Ben Kenobi]

No it isn't. Actually read the first amendment. Please. you know nothing about it.

If discrimination is always wrong, why aren't Catholic schools forced to hire homosexual men and women, Gian?

[Ben Kenobi]

They should be. But adoptions are under the auspices of the state. Private Catholic colleges aren't.

Which explains why California is now ramming that down the throat. Private schools should have the right to hire those in accordance with the mission of the school. This is actually protected under freedom of association (at least for now) under the first amendment.

It's pretty sensible. If a school is protestant, they should not be forced to hire atheists, or Catholics. If a school is Catholic and paid for by the parish and the parents, they should be able to hire Catholics only.

It has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with the mission of the school. This is the core issue over all of this. You see it as discrimination if a school does not hire homosexual men and women - it is not. The Catholic school makes everyone - Catholic or no - sign an agreement that they will defend what the Catholic church teaches - and, this is the bottom line - they will abide by the rules of the Church while they are employed by the church.

There have been about 5, 6 lawsuits filed (always the same clowns), saying that just because they decided to have a homosexual marriage, and publicly defy the Church, that the Church should be bound to continue their employment - despite the fact that they signed a contract saying that they would abide by the teachings of the Church.

I expect, given that you believe that the 1st Amendment shouldn't protect religious exercise, that we'll continue to see everything with a "Christian" name on it in the public sphere shut down over this issue.

The other thing is that you've rendered your argument over the adoption agencies moot. It was never about adoption - it was always about forcing Christians to submit to the state.

[Giancarlo]

Ming - why don't either you or Giancarlo answer the question - as to why it is not discrimination for the Catholic church to only have male priests?

Because adoptions fall under state laws. Period. I have studied the law and I know that. You are utterly incapable of reason. Churches do not fall under the state (thus why they are tax exempted).

Public adoptions fall under the public good. If you cannot abide by public laws governing adoption... You will be shuttered.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding, but not surprising.

[Ming]

Right. No - he doesn't care for my soul. There are many he has and will continue to lose, folks who have lost faith, folks who have drifted away. He is willing to play games with other people's eternal salvation.

And his message of peace, love and understanding will attract many more followers.
As for the bigots that don't understand his christian message... maybe they should listen harder instead of engaging their own hate.

I have two friends that I care deeply for - one is a convert like me and the other grew up Catholic. We're all struggling along together. The other two, one has left and subsequently came back, and the other is very troubled. Both of them are fantastic people, married with families. Both of them are the anchors for their families - keeping them and their families in the Faith.

We're talking the eternal salvation of about 15 people, all told - between both families. Francis is not helping them in their daily lives - Francis has troubled them to the extent that they don't feel that they have a place. They are in because they believe what Christ was told, "Lord to whom else will we go? You have the promise of eternal life.

Yawn... yet another I have a black or gay friend story from Ben that is supposed to apply to all people.
Gee... I have tons of friends too that support the messages of love from our Pope and are glad we finally have one that truly understands what the Church stands for.
So there... enough of the "I have friends that support my message crap"

If your friends Faith is weak, that's their fault, not the Pope's. The Pope is simply talking about love, peace, understanding, forgiveness... if that message troubles a Catholic they should probably be considering another religion that teaches intolerance and hate.

No, Ming - Francis does not care. If he actually *did* care, he'd be a very different pope.

I can see why a bigot like you would wish for a pope that supports your messages of hate.

He does care... and he wants to save your soul. But you are to blinded by your own hate to see it.

[Giancarlo]

Which explains why California is now ramming that down the throat. Private schools should have the right to hire those in accordance with the mission of the school. This is actually protected under freedom of association (at least for now) under the first amendment.

I expect, given that you believe that the 1st Amendment shouldn't protect religious exercise, that we'll continue to see everything with a "Christian" name on it in the public sphere shut down over this issue.

The other thing is that you've rendered your argument over the adoption agencies moot. It was never about adoption - it was always about forcing Christians to submit to the state.

Private schools should lose special protection, especially when they are begging for public funding you idiot.

And where did I say the first amendment shouldn't allow for exercise of religion? You are wanting open discrimination in the public sphere. That is illegal and unconstitutional.

Your whole stupid argument is moot. The rantings of an idiot who has no understanding of the law.

Ming, I beg enough with this clown. He has peddled his hatred enough. Ban him.

[Giancarlo]

And where am I forcing anyone to do anything? We are a secular nation of laws. Not a nation of religious laws. Adoptions fall under the realm of the public good, thus are governed by public laws. Every adoption has to be certified by the state, thus falling under public laws.

If an agency cannot by public laws governed by the highest court in the land, they will be shuttered.

[Giancarlo]

Many private schools and colleges seek and obtain public funding. Some of which is my tax money being used for bigotry and hatred. Unacceptable. All forms of public funding to these hateful organizations should cease or they should be expected to follow the rule of the law and the CONSTITUTION.

John F Kennedy the first Catholic president warned us of this years ago, yet Ben fails to understand.

[Ben Kenobi]

Private schools should lose special protection, especially when they are begging for public funding you idiot.

Do they have a choice as to whether they accept public funding in California, under Title IX? I'm fine with schools going fully independent, but I'd have to check what California requires for their accreditation. If California is going to strip independent colleges of accreditation - then that would, once again, fall afoul of the 1st Amendment.

You are wanting open discrimination in the public sphere.

Teaching the faith is part of religious exercise. Apparently you believe that there is no part of Catholic religious exercise that engages with the public sphere. The whole point of the 1st Amendment is to protect religious exercise (as well as other forms of expression), in the public sphere.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because adoptions fall under state laws. Period. I have studied the law and I know that. You are utterly incapable of reason. Churches do not fall under the state (thus why they are tax exempted).

For now. Obama already tried in Hosanna-Tabor to force a church to have a woman pastor. SCOTUS stomped on him 9-0 citing the First amendment.

[Giancarlo]

Do they have a choice as to whether they accept public funding in California, under Title IX? I'm fine with schools going fully independent, but I'd have to check what California requires for their accreditation. If California is going to strip independent colleges of accreditation - then that would, once again, fall afoul of the 1st Amendment.



Teaching the faith is part of religious exercise. Apparently you believe that there is no part of Catholic religious exercise that engages with the public sphere. The whole point of the 1st Amendment is to protect religious exercise (as well as other forms of expression), in the public sphere.

They shouldn't have accreditation similar to public schools, because they offer inferior education and brainwash young minds. California is acting within the law to strip accreditation of institutions using public funding to peddle bigotry and hatred.

Forcing religion onto others who don't agree and then forcing religious laws on the book is not part of the public sphere. This is a secular nation.

[Ben Kenobi]

Many private schools and colleges seek and obtain public funding. Some of which is my tax money being funded for bigotry and hatred. All forms of public funding to these hateful organizations should cease or they should be expected to follow the rule of the law and the CONSTITUTION.

Yawn. Constitution protects the rights of private educators to hire their own staff. Next you'll be trying to strip accreditation of the independent schools because apparently there's something wrong with freedom of association. Just like is happening in BC with Trinity Western.

[Giancarlo]

For now. Obama already tried in Hosanna-Tabor to force a church to have a woman pastor. SCOTUS stomped on him 9-0 citing the First amendment.

The court has ruled countless times against religious institutions, including striking down attempts to take away the woman's right to choose. But you being the selective idiot you are, you don't see that. You just cherrypick.

[Ben Kenobi]

They shouldn't have accreditation similar to public schools, because they offer inferior education and brainwash young minds

Well, then. Thank you for confirming my point, exactly - Giancarlo. This is my point. It's not about adoption. It's not about education. It's not even about discrimination. It's about, as Kentonio once said, marvelously -"Curbstomping bigots".

Good luck with that Giancarlo. What's next? Forcing Christians to wear yellow crosses? We've been here before. And it wouldn't be the first time in America that Catholics experienced similar things.