Texan Bigotry

[Ben Kenobi]

Divorce isn't wrong, divorcing wives without justification is wrong. Why? Because it becomes adultery when either remarry.

First you argue, "it's all about divorce"

Then you argue, "Divorce isn't wrong".

Yes, divorce is wrong because it destroys the union. The only exception to this is marital infidelity where the partner committing infidelity has already broken the union through their actions.

The God of the OT allowed and even commanded polygamy but you think God condemned it in Genesis?

If polygamy were the norm and the ideal, why was there just Adam and Eve?

You just said we were made for marriage, but not all are called to it?

Yes, we were made for marriage. Most of us anyways. Some aren't.

Hagar and Abraham is the connection

So sayeth who? Christians? Jews? Anyone involved in the actual source material when it was written? No. Sorry.

There's no indication if you look at the time prior to Islam that anyone claimed this connection. Which means that it's a very late interpolation.

If a polygamist converts to Christianity, do they need to divorce all but the first wife?

According to Canon law it's up to the husband when he converts. He must choose one. The default preference is for the first.

[kentonio]

Because you're engaging in hyperbole. This isn't very solid ground you are fighting on - I suggest you try a different line of inquiry.

The level of abuse you get here is far, far in excess of anything anyone else gets. We've already established that its not a result of your beliefs (because others here also share them) so what's the distinguishing factor?

Perhaps then the issue doesn't rest with me.

Gosh, it's everyone else's fault again?

I see. Where have I lied in my argument against gay marriage?

If you're speaking to a known liar, why would you trust them just because they haven't told you a lie yet that day? It's interesting that you shaped your question so narrowly by the way, were you self conscious enough to realize that 'When have I lied?' would have led to an avalanche of quotes?

Doubtful. One would think that if you held respect in esteem, you would respect those who disagree with you.

You have to earn respect.

[Berzerker]

First you argue, "it's all about divorce"

Then you argue, "Divorce isn't wrong".

I didn't say its all about divorce, I said it was about men divorcing their wives without justification.

Yes, divorce is wrong because it destroys the union. The only exception to this is marital infidelity where the partner committing infidelity has already broken the union through their actions.

It aint sinful for two people to divorce if thats what they want, it is sinful for men to dump their wives which is the situation Jesus was addressing.

If polygamy were the norm and the ideal, why was there just Adam and Eve?

You didn't answer the question, how do you figure God was condemning polygamy in Genesis when God allowed and even commanded polygamy afterward? Many of the patriarchs had multiple wives, Jesus wasn't accusing them of sin.

Yes, we were made for marriage. Most of us anyways. Some aren't.

So which is it and where'd Jesus say that?

So sayeth who? Christians? Jews? Anyone involved in the actual source material when it was written? No. Sorry.

The Bible says it, Hagar was given to Abraham by Sarah because she was barren. Thats polygamy

There's no indication if you look at the time prior to Islam that anyone claimed this connection. Which means that it's a very late interpolation.

The Bible says this:

As to Ishmael, I have heard thee; lo, I have blessed him, and made him fruitful, and multiplied him, very exceedingly; twelve princes doth he beget, and I have made him become a great nation

What nation was God talking about?

According to Canon law it's up to the husband when he converts. He must choose one. The default preference is for the first.

So divorce for a reason other than infidelity is allowed?

[molly bloom]

Exactly. That's what I was saying earlier. Conscience rights take priority over convenience. If you don't like this one pharmacist, go to the on across the road.

Would it have been okay if the baker said, 'Sorry, but my cakes are too whitely iced and delicate for you nappy-headed jigaboos' ? Claiming of course to belong to one of those fundy type Protestant sects that believes in the inherent inferiority of some of Noah's progeny... you know, like the South African Reformed Church did.

[Sava]

Would it have been okay if the baker said, 'Sorry, but my cakes are too whitely iced and delicate for you nappy-headed jigaboos' ?

You see... this would seem wrong to all of us "normals". But BK would find that acceptable... because he's evil and racist (among other things).

[molly bloom]

If polygamy were the norm and the ideal, why was there just Adam and Eve?

Except if one looks at nature and human societies the world over, there are many different ways of propagating, forming unions and arranging society. Let alone the fact that the myth of 'Adam & Eve' is hardly meant to be taken literally, except by really obtuse & stupid people in losing arguments.


Like you.

Modern marriage and romance has more to do with Mediaeval courtly love and romances- themselves based on garbled Celtic legends and Islamic tales.

[Sava]

why was there just Adam and Eve?

Uhmm. Quick question BK... do you believe literally that all of humanity is descended from two people?

[molly bloom]

So how is 'social interest' harmed by a Christian baker advising a gay person that he needs to find another baker?

I'm wondering if Sister Bendy of Apartheid is at all familiar with the history of the struggle to achieve racial equality in the U.S. . When black people could not be served at the same counter as white, or order from the same hatch as whites, or drink from the same fountain, use the same schools....

the people framing and enforcing those discriminatory laws thought of themselves as law-abiding Christians. Even the ones who strung up black men, mutilated their genitals and then set fire to their bodies- the souvenir postcards sold aftre show happy smiling family ouitings. White family outings, of course.

Which part of their firmly held Christian beliefs undeprinned those laws and acts, Sister Bendy ? Would that be the 'love they neighbour' part, the 'thou shalt not kill' part, or the ideas behind the parable of the Good Samaritan ?

[molly bloom]

If they were made for it why are they men?

As an ancient Roman pointed out, if the penis were 'made' for the vagina, it would be shaped more like a hatchet. I've been with the same partner since 1984, Sister Bendy. What's your endurance record like ? More in the Britney Spears category ?

[molly bloom]

If Paul was only condemning homosexual acts between grown men and young boys, why wouldn't he have said so? Instead he talks of men committing shameful acts with other men. It wouldn't have made a big difference in word count for him to say, "While sexual acts between consenting adults are fine, fucking little kids is wrong."

I also think it's strange that Paul would have injected so much subtext into a letter he was writing to people he'd never met in person. When I'm communicating with people I've never met, I try to be as clear and unambiguous as possible. Even here, where most of us have been posting for over a decade, it's sometimes hard for people to pick up on jokes.

Face facts. Paul wasn't ELCA.

Do you read New Testament Greek ? If not, then what you're reading in a biblical text is a translation of what an author wrote. Also, Paul (or whoever) wrote specifically at a time and in a particular society- and many if not most same sex realtionships at that time were of the Hellenistic adult male-boy ephebe type. One has only to look at the famous case of the Emperor Hadrian and Antinous for instance. But I forget- you know all about the history fo same sex relationships down the ages....

[molly bloom]

Perhaps you should take the time to read my patron St. Hilary of Tours.

Too busy flicking through Gay Times.

Did Hilary do a picture book ?

[molly bloom]

Is this supposed to be ironic because your hearing sucks...?

Yeah, 'cos it's a metaphor for his comprehension. Or lack of.

If hardline Presbyterians wanted a poster boy for reasons not to join the Catholic Church, they should copy and paste and disseminate widely Sister Bendy's bile beans.

[Nikolai]

Uhmm. Quick question BK... do you believe literally that all of humanity is descended from two people?

Can't answer for Ben, but I do. And so do many (most?) Christians.

[rah]

Do most christians also belief that it's immoral for brothers and sisters to have sex and propagate.
If so.......................

[Nikolai]

Yes. Today it is. Back then presumably the genepool was cleaner, it just being created and sin just come to the world. Sin is what makes the world degrade. Later inbreeding became a problem. That is my guess on it. But I don't have a final answer, as the Bible does not say exactly how that went down.