Texan Bigotry

[Berzerker]

I didn't know Jesus told his followers to avoid sinners, but the verse in Matthew deals with divorce, not when sex is allowed or if its sinful outside of marriage

[Ben Kenobi]

the verse in Matthew deals with divorce, not when sex is allowed or if its sinful outside of marriage

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

The reason why divorce is wrong is because of the union of the man and a woman in marriage. The two become one flesh. Without this particular union you don't have a marriage, and with this union you have a marriage. This is why Christ later goes on to say, "that a man who unites himself with a prostitute, becomes one in flesh with the prostitute.

[Berzerker]

hmm...then I must be wrong - I figured the two into one flesh referred to the child but the prostitute verse casts doubt on that interpretation.

so having sex with a prostitute is the same as marriage?

I still dont see how Jesus was identifying when sex is sinful or not, he's just telling people about divorce

I believe Jesus said divorce was allowed under certain circumstances so even he agreed marriages could be dissolved

[kentonio]

He didn't need to actually say any of those things, they just need to have become accepted 'fact' over thousands of years based on a mountain of supposition, assumption and verbal manipulation by idiots like Ben. Which is why the Christianity you get from reading the bible as a standalone document is utterly and completely different to the version you get from the teachings of the church.

Got to love Chinese whispers, especially when they've also involved people using them to get rich over thousands of years.

[N35t0r]

Odd that, if I'm the only one here who opposes gay marriage that I would be the only one to express an opinion contrary to it.

Read that again.

[N35t0r]

No, we disagree. Schools should all be privately owned. If you want an atheist school that teaches that gay marriage is a-ok, then you should be able to put your child in such a school. Same with me and a Catholic school.

So we're back to 'stuff should be done the way I believe it should be done, the rest be damned'.

[Felch]

He didn't need to actually say any of those things, they just need to have become accepted 'fact' over thousands of years based on a mountain of supposition, assumption and verbal manipulation by idiots like Ben. Which is why the Christianity you get from reading the bible as a standalone document is utterly and completely different to the version you get from the teachings of the church.

What do you mean by "reading the Bible as a standalone document?" It's a compilation of dozens of different works, written in multiple languages over several centuries, with different intended audiences and purposes. Which is why the Christianity you get from reading the Bible as a standalone document is utterly and completely different from the version anybody else will get.

[kentonio]

What do you mean by "reading the Bible as a standalone document?" It's a compilation of dozens of different works, written in multiple languages over several centuries, with different intended audiences and purposes. Which is why the Christianity you get from reading the Bible as a standalone document is utterly and completely different from the version anybody else will get.

Yet people like Ben seem quite happy to try and claim it's clarity and worthiness as a foundation of morality. Which is pretty ****ing funny really, considering even Christians end up with radically opposing views on even the most basic **** in there.

[The Mad Monk]

hmm...then I must be wrong - I figured the two into one flesh referred to the child but the prostitute verse casts doubt on that interpretation.

so having sex with a prostitute is the same as marriage?

That is my interpretation. It also appears to be Paul's (Corithians):

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[a]

[The Mad Monk]

Got to love Chinese whispers, especially when they've also involved people using them to get rich over thousands of years.

You RACIST.

[Ben Kenobi]

What do you mean by "reading the Bible as a standalone document?" It's a compilation of dozens of different works, written in multiple languages over several centuries, with different intended audiences and purposes. Which is why the Christianity you get from reading the Bible as a standalone document is utterly and completely different from the version anybody else will get.

One quibble. The bible doesn't even teach sola scriptura. The Bible teaches that it is to be used alongside another teaching authority - the Magisterium of the Catholic church. This is why. Plenty of folks have been going along over the years and claiming - "the bible says my sin isn't really a sin!", etc. This is just the latest in a long, long line of folks claiming the exact same thing. We are right and God is wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

then I must be wrong - I figured the two into one flesh referred to the child but the prostitute verse casts doubt on that interpretation.

Nope. Two becoming one flesh talks about the union of a man and a woman in marriage.

so having sex with a prostitute is the same as marriage?

One is bonded with them in the same way.

I still dont see how Jesus was identifying when sex is sinful or not, he's just telling people about divorce

Then why that bit about, "he made them male and female". We're supposed to fit together in a union in marriage because that's what we were made for. Other unions - unions outside of marriage, unions of more than one man and one woman are all deviations from what we were made for. That's why the Christian ideal is so radical.

I believe Jesus said divorce was allowed under certain circumstances so even he agreed marriages could be dissolved

The main one being marital infidelity. In essence, a deviation from the same norm - you are breaking the union between husband and wife.

[Ben Kenobi]

Read that again.

You read it again.
"Ben Kenobi is the only one here who believes gay marriage is wrong"
"Ben Kenobi is the only one here who responded negatively to Mr Fun."

Gosh. I wonder if there's a correlation between disapproving of gay marriage and not being totally down with Mr. Fun. He undercut his own argument in an effort to ostracize me.

So we're back to 'stuff should be done the way I believe it should be done, the rest be damned'.

Interestingly enough I was the very first person to reject gay marriage. Go me!

[Ben Kenobi]

Yet people like Ben seem quite happy to try and claim it's clarity and worthiness as a foundation of morality. Which is pretty ****ing funny really, considering even Christians end up with radically opposing views on even the most basic **** in there.

So because people disagree means that truth is impossible?

[Lorizael]

BK, you misread regexcellent. Read his statement again. He said you are not the only person on this site who disapproves of gay marriage (true), but you are the only one who shat on MrFun's engagement thread (true).