Texan Bigotry

[Ben Kenobi]

But that would blow up the 'all gays deserve death' worldview

You've been caught lying about Christianity once already. All sins deserve death, but, through Christ we are redeemed by confessing our sins and repenting, turning away from them. Sodomy isn't 'excluded' from this just because people who support it desperately want it to be.

[Ben Kenobi]

Who gives a **** what the bible says? We're past that, let's do what's morally right instead.

Do you believe that people should be removed from teaching public school because they believe that homosexuality is sinful?

[MikeH]

Do you believe that people should be removed from teaching public school because they believe that homosexuality is sinful?

They can believe what they want, just as long as they are teaching the kids that homosexuality is perfectly natural and normal and they shouldn't be ashamed of it and can live a happy healthy life and have loving long term relationships like straight people.

If they can't teach that, they've got no business teaching.

[Ben Kenobi]

This is funny, because you're the one who claimed freedom of association is explicitly mentioned in the constitution when it is not. But I've gone over my cardiologist's recommended daily limit of discussion with you, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

One, the first amendment protects freedom of association as I already argued, part of the first amendment because it is impossible for a group to have actual freedom of speech if they are required to admit persons contrary to their own beliefs.

Two, there's no evidence whatsoever for special classes of people who receive constitutitional protections (ie, black people and gay people), while excluding folks like men and white people, as snoopy himself claimed. He may want it to be so, but there's nothing in the constitution providing this. Now, the Canadian constitution does, but Canada is not the United States.

[Ben Kenobi]

They can believe what they want, just as long as they are teaching the kids that homosexuality is perfectly natural and normal and they shouldn't be ashamed of it and can live a happy healthy life and have loving long term relationships like straight people.

It's going to be fun when your grandchildren go to Sharia school.

Freedom of conscience works both ways MikeH. The same thing that protects your right to practice atheism, protects the Christian as well. This is no different from forcing Christians to sacrifice to the divine Emperor.

[MikeH]

The same thing applies to Muslim schools Ben doesn't it.

We shouldn't accept bigotry in any form, no matter what kind of religious excuses it's dressed up by. There are plenty of happy gay Christians and happy Christians totally accepting of homosexuality.

I'm completely against forcing anyone to sacrifice to an Emporer too. That's persecution too.

It's not persecution to say to Christians "you have to treat everyone nicely" that's what Jesus said after all.

[MikeH]

NOTE: I also think they shouldn't be able to set up private schools to preach their bigotry.

[Ben Kenobi]

The same thing applies to Muslim schools Ben doesn't it.

Last I checked, no it doesn't. At least not in England. What, are you going to go to a madrassa and tell them what they have to teach their children? No - that's not happening.

What will happen is that the Muslims - once they feel they can get away with it - will do that to you. Your grandchildren will go to a madrassa and there isn't anything you can do about it.

We shouldn't accept bigotry in any form, no matter what kind of religious excuses it's dressed up by. There are plenty of happy gay Christians and happy Christians totally accepting of homosexuality.

The problem is that any society that embraces this is dying. They will be replaced by a society that rejects it. It's already happening in Europe. And it's not particularly slow, either.

Those are your choices. Natural law, which respects freedom of conscience, or sharia.

I'm completely against forcing anyone to sacrifice to an Emporer too. That's persecution too.

Then why are you forcing Christians to sacrifice to your God?

It's not persecution to say to Christians "you have to treat everyone nicely" that's what Jesus said after all.

What if someone were to teach children that 'murder is ok'? Would they be considered to be a nice person?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm not here to talk about God's love and mercy. I'm just setting the record straight. Paul's letter to the Romans did not distinguish between homosexual acts between adults and pederasty. You claimed that it did, and you were wrong. End of discussion.

As the risk of repeating myself, context matters. Words do not exist in a vacuum.

[MikeH]

Last I checked, no it doesn't. At least not in England. What, are you going to go to a madrassa and tell them what they have to teach their children? No - that's not happening.

Yes it is.

What will happen is that the Muslims - once they feel they can get away with it - will do that to you. Your grandchildren will go to a madrassa and there isn't anything you can do about it.

So we agree they shouldn't be able to get away with teaching homophobia?

The problem is that any society that embraces this is dying. They will be replaced by a society that rejects it. It's already happening in Europe. And it's not particularly slow, either.

Those are your choices. Natural law, which respects freedom of conscience, or sharia.

STRAWMAN!

Then why are you forcing Christians to sacrifice to your God?

What if someone were to teach children that 'murder is ok'? Would they be considered to be a nice person?

"murder is ok" isn't a generally accepted thing only disputed by a bigoted minority is it Ben?

[MikeH]

It amuses me that Ben's argument is that I must allow Christians to teach my kids bigoted views or I'll end up with Muslims teaching them bigoted views, as if the latter was worse in some way.

[Dinner]

But I do believe the ELCA is better at reading Paul than the Catholic Church has been.

What makes the Lutheran Church better than the dozens of other branches out there?

[regexcellent]

I had a case for TXARNG doing what it does but this discussion has been so thoroughly derailed by BK's retarded nonsense that it's not worth bothering anymore. If my skimming was accurate, then yes ben there is a good freedom of association argument for permitting people to be racist BUT that has nothing to do with the rules governing state military forces.

[DinoDoc]

I had a case for TXARNG doing what it does but this discussion has been so thoroughly derailed by BK's "jack" that it's not worth bothering anymore.

I was sad about that myself.

[Guynemer]

He is your cross to bear. Oerdin is ours.