Texan Bigotry

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes. And what does Paul say? The judgement is for God. But it is upheld as sin. Anyhow, a Christian, baker doctor, must be allowed to do as his/her conviction in the matter says. Not selling a cake is okay. Not doing abortions are okay. It's when violence, jail or such things come into play that he has gone way too far.

Paul says that the dehumanizing nature of homosexual relationships in the Greek and Roman world, where the "receiver" is a boy slave who is used for sexual benefit and then cast aside when he becomes too old is not ok. The problem is the dehumanization, not the homosexual act - as in the problem with Onan is not obeying God in providing an heir for his brother's wife so that she could be taking care of, not the "spilling of seed".

There are Christians whose convictions led them to support slavery. Our convictions can be wrong and when they are in support of ostracism and hatred, I believe they are. Jail may be appropriate punishments. We cannot simply throw up our hands when people say their convictions tell them otherwise - what about human sacrifice?

[Sava]

Imran
Nikolai

[snoopy369]

except in a few cases where it's not unreasonable to make accommodations

Glad your reading comprehension is up to par, Ben. These accommodations are made where it doesn't otherwise harm social interests. You're also talking about people being forced to do something very significant - perform abortions - that is not only a religious belief but could be a very psychologically scarring event for some people, hence the protection. Making a cake for a homosexual couple's wedding does not rise to that level - and frankly you lessen the value of 'conscience protection' by suggesting it should apply.

[regexcellent]

Ben, just shut the **** up. You're framing the issue completely wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

Glad your reading comprehension is up to par, Ben. These accommodations are made where it doesn't otherwise harm social interests.

So how is 'social interest' harmed by a Christian baker advising a gay person that he needs to find another baker?

You're also talking about people being forced to do something very significant - perform abortions - that is not only a religious belief but could be a very psychologically scarring event for some people, hence the protection.

I'm talking about a Catholic pharmacist not dispensing contraception. Do you consider this to be a 'very psychologically scarring' event?

Making a cake for a homosexual couple's wedding does not rise to that level - and frankly you lessen the value of 'conscience protection' by suggesting it should apply.

You have the onus exactly backwards. Why should the inconvenience to the couple of having to try another baker trump the Christian's refusal to prepare a cake for a wedding?

[Ben Kenobi]

Paul says that the dehumanizing nature of homosexual relationships in the Greek and Roman world, where the "receiver" is a boy slave who is used for sexual benefit and then cast aside when he becomes too old is not ok.

Really, Imran? You're trying to lie about Christianity now?

Romans 1:18-31

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[Ben Kenobi]

@ Reg

How should the issue be framed then? Same question to Dinodoc as you. I don't see how one can ban polygamy in Utah arguing that states have the ultimate right to decide.

[rah]

I'm waiting for Ben to say that Catholic hospitals should be allowed to turn away dying black patients.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm waiting for Ben to say that Catholic hospitals should be allowed to turn away dying black patients.

Why? It's contrary to our mission. If you want a church that specifically says that black people have the mark of cain I believe the Mormon church is hiring.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I thank Ben for validating my point

[Sava]

Ben, just shut the **** up.

This.

[SlowwHand]

Of all the people that I've ever been acquainted with, you are definitely in the running for "Lowest Self-Esteem".

[Dinner]

What's going on in your life right now, Slowwie? I can't help but notice you've been excessively negative and angry lately, much more than normal for you, so maybe there is something going on in real life for you right now?

[SlowwHand]

If there was I'd be sure and talk with you about it here.

[MikeH]

Should a club be allowed to refuse black people?

No, of course not.

White people?

No, of course not.

Does it make a club bigots if they exclude people of a particular race?

Yes, of course it does.

Is it sexist to have a woman's sewing club? Or a men's club?

Yes, of course it is.

I can't believe this needs explaining.