Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[Imran Siddiqui]

That doesn't address the question, gribbler. Why don't we find people who support abortion who are also opposed to contraception?

May I also point out that we don't find people who support gay marriage who are opposed to contraception.

The reasoning is likely because those are for a more liberal view of sexuality than a traditional view of sexuality have contraception as their "gateway drug", so to speak.

[giblets]

That doesn't address the question, gribbler. Why don't we find people who support abortion who are also opposed to contraception?

Opposition to contraception is weird and only one religious sect does it, as far as I know. They oppose it for reasons that would also rule out abortion, even if they didn't believe that human embryos are persons. But I'm sure someone could come up with a bizarre, nonsensical reason to oppose contraception that doesn't preclude abortions.

[Ben Kenobi]

May I also point out that we don't find people who support gay marriage who are opposed to contraception.

Of course. It's nice not to have to supply each step of the way.

The reasoning is likely because those are for a more liberal view of sexuality than a traditional view of sexuality have contraception as their "gateway drug", so to speak.

*Sniff*. They grow up so fast these days. Don't they just make you so proud?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Opposition to contraception is weird and only one religious sect does it, as far as I know. They oppose it for reasons that would also rule out abortion, even if they didn't believe that human embryos are persons. But I'm sure someone could come up with a bizarre, nonsensical reason to oppose contraception that doesn't preclude abortions.

I mean, Hell, even conservative Islam allows for contraception.

[Ben Kenobi]

But I'm sure someone could come up with a bizarre, nonsensical reason to oppose contraception that doesn't preclude abortions.

Well, like I said, quite a few things make sense when understood from this context. Recall I hadn't confronted this idea at all - but when I learned a bit more - this question really stumped me. I couldn't come up with an adequate reason why - other than the obvious one that Imran just supplied here. Abortion isn't the cause, it's the symptom.

[giblets]

For example, if someone declared that it's morally wrong to wear a condom because teh sex feels better without it, that would not rule out the possibility of getting an abortion.

[giblets]

Well, like I said, quite a few things make sense when understood from this context. Recall I hadn't confronted this idea at all - but when I learned a bit more - this question really stumped me. I couldn't come up with an adequate reason why - other than the obvious one that Imran just supplied here. Abortion isn't the cause, it's the symptom.

The symptom of women feeling that having a child will make their lives worse. Maybe you should blame society instead of blaming condoms.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Abortion isn't the cause, it's the symptom.

Technically so is contraception. It's a "symptom" of a different viewpoint of sex and sexuality. It is merely the easiest to accept when moving from that which is deemed traditional Western views on sex.

[MRT144]

It increases the abortion rate, because it teaches people that you can kill your children if they are unwanted.

Nope

[MRT144]

Then you need to brush up on your genetics. IVF must work by 'magic'.

What tissue are you using on a 6 month old? Hair, gum, rectal?

[MRT144]

It raises the likelihood of any successful pregnancy being unwanted. Ergo, the abortion rate rises. I am quite convinced that abortion is not viable without contraception - contraception came first and abortion followed.

Nope

[Ben Kenobi]

Technically so is contraception. It's a "symptom" of a different viewpoint of sex and sexuality. It is merely the easiest to accept when moving from that which is deemed traditional Western views on sex.

Rephrase it as sin, and you've restated the Catholic position in it's entirety - from start to finish. Working from nothing more than basic presuppositions.

[Ben Kenobi]

What tissue are you using on a 6 month old? Hair, gum, rectal?

You aren't seriously arguing that a DNA sample would show a difference between the two? I sample the CV. (edit, which I see is viable at 8 weeks). Sufficiently early enough for our purposes.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course, abortion and birth control have been in existance since 1800+ BC, so prior to any Western tradition of sex.

[MRT144]

You aren't seriously arguing that a DNA sample would show a difference between the two? I sample the CV. (edit, which I see is viable at 8 weeks).

My turds have my DNA in them.