Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[Hauldren Collider]

nvm

[MRT144]

Uh, don't you have herpes?

Outbreak free since 2003!

[Kidlicious]

I restrained myself from the obvious low blow about herpes. I now demand recognition for my restraint.

You are good not to judge someone who has herpes and still doesn't use protection.

[rah]

Answer the question, rah.

WHY? the answer has nothing to do with what I was questioning and I refuse to fall for your normal, ask a meaningless question.

I didn't believe you when in a previous thread, about how women feel about sex with or without a condom, that women came up to you to discuss their sex lives, and I certainly don't believe that anyone would let you consul raped women that had an abortion or that they would seek you out. BS

[MRT144]

You are good not to judge someone who has herpes and still doesn't use protection.

Wife disease free since 2003!

[giblets]

The abortion "debate," such as it is, is insoluble because the differing POVs depend on fundamentally different conceptions of what gives human life meaning or worth (humanity itself being sacred versus humans being valued for their distinctly human capabilities). That's about as deep-seated as a disagreement can get. At this point I'd accept a compromise--wrong on principle, yet better than what we have--but it won't happen.

Also, die-hard opposition to contraception sabotages the whole pro-life position.

It's a little weird when atheists like Hauldren Collider seem to think humanity itself is sacred. Maybe he thinks humanity was blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[MRT144]

I think human life is sacred. That's why I don't BS about multiplying cells being human life.

[regexcellent]

It's a little weird when atheists like Hauldren Collider seem to think humanity itself is sacred. Maybe he thinks humanity was blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

You don't need belief in God to know that there's no meaningful difference, in terms of moral personhood, between a newborn at 24 weeks and a fetus at 24 weeks. Yet there's a legal distinction in how we treat them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

This. The catholic church's beliefs regarding contraception aren't because they think that sperm are people. They don't. They think that sex is just for reproduction and stuff.

Not necessarily (not "just for"). They also do believe that sex within marriage builds intimacy and companionship between the spouses.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not necessarily (not "just for"). They also do believe that sex within marriage builds intimacy and companionship between the spouses.

Indeed. This is why the Catholic church opposes artificial insemination. Sex without babies is bad, so are babies without sex. The unitive (read sex part) is supposed to be together with the procreative part (having babies).

[Ben Kenobi]

Also, die-hard opposition to contraception sabotages the whole pro-life position.

How so? I've been an agnostic prolifer, a prolifer who supported contraception and a prolifer who rejects contraception at various points in my life.

[Ben Kenobi]

WHY? the answer has nothing to do with what I was questioning and I refuse to fall for your normal, ask a meaningless question.

It has everything to do with your argument which is why you're deliberately avoiding the question. If you didn't feel answering the question would undermine your own argument, you would answer it straight.

You've been on about my credentials, etc, but in the end proved that they were unnecessary because everyone who disagrees with you must be wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

& Ben the issue with confirming the pre-suppositions is that you likely won't get a match on those

Which is why the logical argument is to debate the presuppositions first.

Again, I'll ask you that same question about continuity of existence. If there's a DNA match, logically, does it not make sense to assert there is continuity between the embryo in the womb and the toddler outside?

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think there are that many people who are actually anti-contraception. Maybe Ben? I don't know if he is or not.

I've been opposed to contraception since about 2004 or thereabouts. I converted and became Catholic in 2005, so for a short while (about a year or so), I was still a protestant but opposed to contraception. But that probably doesn't count because I was well on the way to becoming Catholic by then.

You could probably pull up a few posts here where I supported contraception...

[Aeson]

Abortion is the most divisive issue since slavery. There is no middle ground.

Actually there is. We occupy it. A fetus has a measure of protection, but not full protection. Obviously having full protection or no protection at all are the extremes.

There may be no middle ground that you personally are willing to accept, but that just means you're an extremist.