How "Christian" of him!!

[Ben Kenobi]

I said, by your own witness, you know the word of God better than me, so God holds you to a higher standard.

The correct answer is to obtain proficiency.

[Boris Godunov]

That is true, and the prophets were very clear about warning Israel beforehand. What they do not do is give an 'after the act' review on it. There's a big difference between the two.

Did the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah get warnings? I don't remember that happening, honestly.

Ditto with the Flood. God warns Noah because he wants to save him, sure, but I don't think anyone else got a message.

Maybe God did warn someone about Haiti, we just don't know it yet. In fact, Robertson might claim God told *him* about it. After all, he did claim God had told him a meteor would hit Disney World because they let teh gays in.

[Boris Godunov]

I think God took credit in the OT

But what stuns me is that Robertson believes God kills the innocent to get at the wicked. Thats evil, Pat, why cant you see that? Because he's an OT Christian, and that is an oxy moron if Jesus is God, or in tune with something beyond our perceptions.

How does Jesus somehow negate the OT God killing scores of innocents to get at the wicked? Jesus never claimed the OT wasn't true, did he? And you can't deny that in the OT, God is stated to have killed many innocents along with the wicked. I don't think anyone can rationally believe the first born of Egypt were all wicked, nor the babies dashed against rocks by the Israelites at God's behest.

[Caligastia]

How does Jesus somehow negate the OT God killing scores of innocents to get at the wicked? Jesus never claimed the OT wasn't true, did he? And you can't deny that in the OT, God is stated to have killed many innocents along with the wicked. I don't think anyone can rationally believe the first born of Egypt were all wicked, nor the babies dashed against rocks by the Israelites at God's behest.

The NT plainly states that Jesus supported what was written in the OT, but keep in mind that the NT was written by people who supported the OT. No doubt some of their views were inserted into the mix.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I heard a radio interview with Sir David Attenborough the other day, and it touched on religion/evolution. He pointed out seeing children in Africa with parasitic worms eating their eyeballs from the inside. That's the only way the worms can survive, by eating eyeballs- it's the only option open to them.

If you accept the notion of creation, the God that created the children is the same God that created the eyeball-eating worms. And that's something Sir David struggles to balance with the notion of a benevolent deity. Can't say I blame him.

[DaShi]

God created people to be worm food. -FACT!

[Caligastia]

I heard a radio interview with Sir David Attenborough the other day, and it touched on religion/evolution. He pointed out seeing children in Africa with parasitic worms eating their eyeballs from the inside. That's the only way the worms can survive, by eating eyeballs- it's the only option open to them.

If you accept the notion of creation, the God that created the children is the same God that created the eyeball-eating worms. And that's something Sir David struggles to balance with the notion of a benevolent deity. Can't say I blame him.

If God had created a world free of challenges and difficulties, we wouldn't have any opportunity to learn and grow. And for us to be able to face those challenges, we must have free will, and having free will means that we have the power to make decisions that can have negative consequences for others. Many different decisions made by many people, led to the situation of the child with the eyeball-eating worm. God didn't create the child and the worm in isolation and say "child, this is worm - worm, this is child...have fun".

[Boris Godunov]

That's true. The childrens' parents obviously made the horrible decision to live in a Third World ****hole, so the kids deserve to have worms eating their eyeballs.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Many different decisions made by many people, led to the situation of the child with the eyeball-eating worm. God didn't create the child and the worm in isolation and say "child, this is worm - worm, this is child...have fun".

Wonder what this supposed learning point is, and whether it's worth all those blinded and dead kids to get there.

[Boris Godunov]

The dead kids sure learned a lesson.

"Don't be born in Third World ****holes."

Next time, they'll try harder.

Unless of course they're in Hell right now because they weren't raised to believe in the right deity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Did the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah get warnings? I don't remember that happening, honestly.

Yes, they did.

Ditto with the Flood. God warns Noah because he wants to save him, sure, but I don't think anyone else got a message.

All we are told is Noah's response. Did he call out to others to warn them of the impending flood, or did he use Noah himself as a warning? People chose to ignore Noah when they asked him why he was building this big boat.

Maybe God did warn someone about Haiti, we just don't know it yet. In fact, Robertson might claim God told *him* about it. After all, he did claim God had told him a meteor would hit Disney World because they let teh gays in.

That's not what Robertson said, and again, they would have been warned prior to the disaster.

[Ben Kenobi]

How does Jesus somehow negate the OT God killing scores of innocents to get at the wicked?

Are you saying that you believe those deaths were divine punishment as recorded in the OT?

Jesus never claimed the OT wasn't true, did he? And you can't deny that in the OT, God is stated to have killed many innocents along with the wicked.

All have sinned and fallen short of the law. (In the NT, btw). There is no one who is righteous, not one (In the NT as well).

I don't think anyone can rationally believe the first born of Egypt were all wicked, nor the babies dashed against rocks by the Israelites at God's behest.

At Israel's behest? What, you think that the Israelites ordered God to strike down? No. Recall in Exodus, how many plagues occurred, before Pharoah finally got the word? God struck at the sons because that was was Pharoah valued more than anything else. He warned them that his judgment was coming.

[Boris Godunov]

Yes, they did.

Cite, please.

All we are told is Noah's response. Did he call out to others to warn them of the impending flood, or did he use Noah himself as a warning? People chose to ignore Noah when they asked him why he was building this big boat.

You mean people ignored an old man building a big boat who claimed the entire earth would be flooded? Who would have thought.

Why should they have believed him, when it wasn't God telling them directly? Do you believe people walking around with signs saying "The End is Near?" And how many people would have seen that, anyway? Just his immediate neighbors. That's not much of a warning to the poor sods in the next country over, is it?

That's not what Robertson said, and again, they would have been warned prior to the disaster.

Again, Robertson did not say he was certain that was the reason, so he didn't have to claim he had divine revelation. It was a possibility he threw out there, and given the Biblical precedent, how can you say for sure he's wrong?

Are you saying that you believe those deaths were divine punishment as recorded in the OT?

I'm pretty sure that's it clear that the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Egyptian plagues were divine punishment visited on the wicked, yes.

All have sinned and fallen short of the law. (In the NT, btw). There is no one who is righteous, not one (In the NT as well).

Babies have sinned and fallen short of the law? Are there babies in Hell, Ben?

I'll remember this the next time I see someone talking about "innocent babies" during abortion arguments. Nope, nobody's innocent. So says the Bible.

At Israel's behest? What, you think that the Israelites ordered God to strike down?

I said at God's behest. It's right ****ing there.

Recall in Exodus, how many plagues occurred, before Pharoah finally got the word? God struck at the sons because that was was Pharoah valued more than anything else. He warned them that his judgment was coming.

So you just proved my point. God killed children who hadn't done anything wrong to get at someone else who was wicked. Thanks for the help.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why should they have believed him, when it wasn't God telling them directly? Do you believe people walking around with signs saying "The End is Near?"

A wicked generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given except the sign of Jonah. Sodom's warning were the angels that they tried to sodomise.

Again, Robertson did not say he was certain that was the reason, so he didn't have to claim he had divine revelation. It was a possibility he threw out there, and given the Biblical precedent, how can you say for sure he's wrong?

Because prophets aren't maybe this or maybe that. They are explicit and they testify before the event.

I'm pretty sure that's it clear that the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Egyptian plagues were divine punishment visited on the wicked, yes.

Not my question. Do you believe that they were divine punishments.

Babies have sinned and fallen short of the law? Are there babies in Hell, Ben?

Sin of Adam. No, I don't believe there are babies in heaven, but that does not mean they are sinless.

So you just proved my point. God killed children who hadn't done anything wrong to get at someone else who was wicked. Thanks for the help.

To free his people Israel. After sending 7 different plagues over Egypt. Finally Pharoah agreed to free the Israelites from slavery.

[Berzerker]

There's not really a meaningful difference between what you would term an OT Christian and a NT Christian.

One believes collateral damage is desired by God, the other doesn't believe God would send an earthquake or hurricane to kill someone.

How does Jesus somehow negate the OT God killing scores of innocents to get at the wicked? Jesus never claimed the OT wasn't true, did he? And you can't deny that in the OT, God is stated to have killed many innocents along with the wicked. I don't think anyone can rationally believe the first born of Egypt were all wicked, nor the babies dashed against rocks by the Israelites at God's behest.

The NT plainly states that Jesus supported what was written in the OT, but keep in mind that the NT was written by people who supported the OT. No doubt some of their views were inserted into the mix.

Jesus negates the OT because he is the way, his teachings... Maybe someone else is in charge of heaven now Jesus was not enamored with everything done in the OT, look at how he challenged Mosaic divorce law and the Sabbath. I certainly dont let the OT taint Jesus by thinking he's guilty because of what God allegedly did.

I heard a radio interview with Sir David Attenborough the other day, and it touched on religion/evolution. He pointed out seeing children in Africa with parasitic worms eating their eyeballs from the inside. That's the only way the worms can survive, by eating eyeballs- it's the only option open to them.

If you accept the notion of creation, the God that created the children is the same God that created the eyeball-eating worms. And that's something Sir David struggles to balance with the notion of a benevolent deity. Can't say I blame him.

God created people to be worm food. -FACT!

bummer, kinda shows we aint so high on nature's/God's list of priorities