How "Christian" of him!!

[Kidlicious]

Fine, you drop the allegation? Yes or no.

Why, so you can lie again and no one will say anything?

[Kidlicious]

good one, fake Boris

Is it envy when you get upset because your wife sleeps with another man? If so that's not a sin.

But how did he define "for me"? The disciples saw a man doing miracles but who was not a follower of Jesus, and Jesus said it didn't matter - the man was doing good. So I dont think Jesus was saying Christians are for him and non-Christians are against him.

What's that verse? I've read it but can't remember the verse.

C'mon, what kind of God would warn you of impending death by sending some old crackpot around shouting the end is near? Is God now ignorant of our nature, and common sense? If God wants to warn you, God had better do it or God is responsible for the failed transmission.

There was nothing wrong with the transmission. You seem to have a problem with the messenger.

[Berzerker]

The summerians didn't follow God.

I imagine they'd be upset to learn that. Now why is that? Abraham was Abram the Sumerian merchant of Ur and his many fathers were still alive in his time - these are the fathers Joshua was referring to in Josh 24:2-6. Why weren't these descendants of Noah following God? Or maybe you're wrong, God was one of many followed by the Sumerians. They even have illuminating tales of conflicts between these gods, especially the sky god and his brother the serpent god and these tales parallel and precede the Bible's stories.

So they will have the narratives wrong.

Have you read them? Why are we to trust some narrator who wrote in 500 BC or 150 AD over Noah's descendants? Much of the Bible is Jewish/Hebrew history, but the olden times belong to the Sumerians and Akkadians - the Jews as a people and their Bible did not exist. We can read these stories as they were written in 2500 BC or we can read multi-edited versions subject to thousands of years of propaganda. Your position is ideological, not logical.

When has God used anyone other than people for telling people things?

Many examples, God told Adam he'd die if he touched the apple (and that was BS, the Serpent told Eve the truth). Abram and Sarai interacted with God on several occasions, and one of the patriarchs even wrestled God. But yer missing the point - some old guy running around shouting the end is near does not qualify as a warning from God. If thats how God warns people before killing them for some sin, to hell with God. Actually, God often uses angels for these messengers - thats where the ME tradition of hospitality to strangers comes from, the fear an angel would ask for help as a test ala Sodom's test.

Even the biggest communication from God, Christ, was in the form of a man.

Who went around convincing people he was divine with miracles, not even the prophets did that. Btw, was Noah a prophet? Does the Bible refer to him in that way?

In the Christian spirituality, God communicates through people.

That may be, but if God thinks its rational for the rest of us to drop everything we're doing and run for the hills every time some old timer starts rambling on about the end then y'all can have him. I'd call that immoral...

Is it envy when you get upset because your wife sleeps with another man? If so that's not a sin.

Yes, its envy and its worse - its anger, and Jesus equated anger with murder. But even moreso, its all too human, Kid. Why is that? Why does God have some of our nastier traits?

What's that verse? I've read it but can't remember the verse.

me too, I dont think its the Good Samaritan story but its along the same line anyway. Ben or JM might know...

There was nothing wrong with the transmission. You seem to have a problem with the messenger.

Exactly! Right now there are people in the world announcing the end is near and each have their own "prophecy" about how our end will come - but you dont see everyone running for the hills, do you? So why would God warn people that way? If God was God, God would know rational people, people with a semblance of common sense, would not run for the hills just because someone said a Flood was coming to destroy the world. Thats outrageous! It really is... Millions die because they didn't believe some guy most took for as nutcase? Thats how God works? No thanks...

[Jon Miller]

The Jews had a relationship with God while the sumerians did not. Why should we trust the sumerians narratives and not the Jews?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Jesus was angry with the money changers and others.

Stop your simplistic nonsense Berserker. Think.

JM

[Berzerker]

The Jews had a relationship with God while the sumerians did not. Why should we trust the sumerians narratives and not the Jews?

JM

Jesus was angry with the money changers and others.

Stop your simplistic nonsense Berserker. Think.

JM

Abram was a Sumerian, and so were his fathers - descendants of Noah. Are you suggesting they didn't know God? As for Jesus, according to you he was angry with certain people, therefore...therefore what? Therefore he didn't condemn anger? But he did... Do you deny that?

21 “You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire.

Your turn to think, or will you just shout "fool" again?

[Jon Miller]

Maybe you should think about what is said, Christ wasn't speaking in English.

Look at the whole story, not a certain sentence written in english (not the tongue that was spoken in). Look at the place and position of events that happen and things that are said. These are all important to understanding what was actually being said.

I am suggesting that the sumerians didn't know God very well. They are not cited as being good followers of God, that is why Abraham/Noah/etc were singled out, and why God was with the Jews.

JM

[Berzerker]

he was condemning anger because it leads to murder, just as lust leads to adultery.

do you deny he was condemning anger or not?

and now Noah's descendants didn't know God very well? Where did you find that in the Bible?

[Nikolai]

Except for the Babel incident, nothing is said in the Bible regarding this issue, not anything to support either of you. Babel shows they were in opposition to God though.

[Ben Kenobi]

Mark 9:38-9

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

So I dont think Jesus was saying Christians are for him and non-Christians are against him.

Not the case at all. The man invoked Christ's name in order to heal people. So he was a Christian, who believed, he just wasn't one of the disciples. What he is saying is that anyone, Christian or not, who blesses the disciples and those who work for him, will be blessed. He's also saying that those who do not hinder the work of God, Christian or not, are to be thought of as allies, even if they don't believe. "Whomever is not against us, is for us."

[Nikolai]

What does that have to do with Noa?

[Ben Kenobi]

me too, I dont think its the Good Samaritan story but its along the same line anyway. Ben or JM might know...

I'm answering Berz's question.

[Nikolai]

I see you edited the post after I wrote that post above.

[Berzerker]

Except for the Babel incident, nothing is said in the Bible regarding this issue, not anything to support either of you. Babel shows they were in opposition to God though.

I dont know that you can hang Babel on Noah's progeny, but the incident does show that these people were following God... They were building a tower to visit him

Mark 9:38-9

Not the case at all. The man invoked Christ's name in order to heal people. So he was a Christian, who believed, he just wasn't one of the disciples. What he is saying is that anyone, Christian or not, who blesses the disciples and those who work for him, will be blessed. He's also saying that those who do not hinder the work of God, Christian or not, are to be thought of as allies, even if they don't believe. "Whomever is not against us, is for us."

Yup, yer right. I forgot the guy invoked Jesus' name for the miracles. And I agree with the rest of that interpretation, but aren't you making the case for deeds over faith? How can Jesus condemn his allies?

[Ben Kenobi]

By the fruits you will know them. Fruits are evidence of Faith, but Faith is not based on them.

Oh, and it's not by his will, but Christ's, which is why he's using Christ's name.