President caves in completely

[Asher]

Depends on the prolifer.

Me, I'm against universal health care, because I believe in personal responsibility and the efficacy of the free market.

So you're pro-choice, then. The responsibility for the life of the fetus is personal, it's on the mother. You also believe in the efficacy of the free market -- if an abortion clinic opens, and people patronize it, it's a valid business.

[KrazyHorse]

And when Obama says the care will not pay for abortions (as any plan based on insurance won't as no insurance I know covers abortion).

WTF are you on about? Most private insurance plans cover abortion.

http://www.prochoice.org/pregnant/common/

Q. Does insurance cover the cost of an abortion?
A. Almost two-thirds of insurance companies cover elective abortion to some degree. Contact your insurance company to find out if you are covered.

[Ben Kenobi]

So you're pro-choice, then. The responsibility for the life of the fetus is personal, it's on the mother. You also believe in the efficacy of the free market -- if an abortion clinic opens, and people patronize it, it's a valid business.

I believe that people have the inalienable right to life, and that includes little tiny babies in their mother's womb. It's no different than recognising that the black man is a person, everyone has a duty to defend the innocent and vulnerable.

Look at it this way, if unborn children had a 50 percent chance of killing their assailant, how many would do abortions?

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't even know if abortions are covered in Canada?

They are covered, in both hospitals and for-profit clinics.

[Asher]

I believe that people have the inalienable right to life

Then you must support the inalienable right to the preservation of life, which is provided by health care.

Look at me shoving a logic bomb up your ass. Is it hot or what?

[Asher]

They are covered, in both hospitals and for-profit clinics.

So they are not covered by universal health care. Thanks for being a douche and trying to be sly about this.

[Riesstiu IV]

Right-wing Christian opposition to abortion has nothing to due with the right to life.

The truth is the religious right, or at least those ministers who constantly dupe suckers with their 'services', are against abortion because they know that in order to reduce the standard of living of the nation and spread their prosperity theology down the throats of despondent and stupid, they need to keep the population booming and ignorant. They are also against public education and teaching the sciences because it isn't profitable for a minister to have a congregation that thinks for itself and socially/economically mobile.

A solid base of poor stupid people ensures their pockets remained lined with gold. This is pretty much the case for any religion, ever.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then you must support the inalienable right to the preservation of life, which is provided by health care.

This is actually a good question. First off, there is no right to the 'preservation of life'. We cannot preserve life indefinitely. Secondly, I do not have the right to demand the work of another man in the preservation of my own life. He may choose, voluntarily to provide it to me, but to coerce another man to do so is wrong.

I would argue in the case of children, that the parents have the obligation to look after their children, to care for them and to provide them for the necessities of life. This is part of the right to life, because the children cannot fend for themselves. Nor is it the obligation of society to care for these children, it is the obligation of their parents. People can choose to care for them, and to help them, but there is no obligation. This is an extension of the duty of the mother to care for her unborn child in the womb, and why abortion, the killing of her child, is wrong and violates the right to life.

Some of course would argue that we ought to support universal health care, but I believe it is contrary to the provision of well-being both for individuals and society.

[Ben Kenobi]

So they are not covered by universal health care. Thanks for being a douche and trying to be sly about this.

WTH?

Yes, it's covered in universal health care here in Canada. It's right in the MSP, both for the clinics and the hospitals.

[Guynemer]

Asher, why are you quoting him?

[OzzyKP]

How can you loyalists respect this man? Er, let me rephrase that, how can you believe anything that his speech writer writes for this man and puts on the teleprompter? You would have been better off voting for the teleprompter, at least then there wouldn't be this constant racial tension.

Required health care in a time of economic crap hole is the worst idea ever. People that don't have insurance *like me* don't have it because we cannot afford it. I am in perfect health, mainly because I take care of myself. I am struggling because I don't paid enough and I just can't afford it...now it is a good thing to punish me and take money from me because I can't afford insurance? How does that work? How is that freedom of choice? Of all the things that are American, how does that fit in to freedom to speak your mind, believe in any god/s, protest, etc.?

I'm in the same boat. I don't want to be forced to choose between paying my rent and paying for health insurance that I don't need.

[zakubandit]

I am watching his speech right now, and you know what is the scariest thing? I have this cold chill remembering the Hitler Nazi speeches...he is reminiscence of that. The way he speaks, the way he forces tag lines, this guy is an egocentric to the core.

Asher, do not begin to assume that just because someone is pro life that they have to be for socialized medical coverage. I am not a pro lifer, I personally do not support abortion, BUT it is a persons right to decide what is best for themselves, not a government. I do not support socialized medical coverage because, as Obama said it himself, hard workers are paying for someone they do not know who cannot afford it to be in an ER. I feel bad for Joe Nobody's gallstones, I do, but I am sorry to say that HIS health is not MY responsibility. My health, my wife's health, my son's health, even my cats' healths are my responsibility. I am poor in the sense my paycheck and my COLA and lifestyle no longer coincide, but I do not take hand outs. I joined the military to defend the country, I got medical because...well soldiers are unique individuals and should not have to pay for medical coverage for what they do. I do not believe the government has a responsibility to provide me with medical coverage, because it is my own personal responsibility to stay healthy. *I am at the part of the speech now where he talks about a health care Walmart, a place where people can go for bargain discount priced insurance...what a dumb ass*

There is a mass epidemic of obese Americans that are going to need medical coverage for their obesity cause medical conditions. Now these Americans have all the tools necessary to get their weight down and stay healthy. They are provided 2 feet to walk, 2 arms to lift, healthy food to eat, and a mind that can achieve anything. Now how is it my responsibility to take my hard earned money and give it to that person who refuses to have motivation and take the personal responsibility to get off their lazy ass and exercise? How is it my job to pay for that fat asses medical coverage for a medical condition they caused? It isn't. How is it my job to pay for a genetic condition from someone elses families genetic problems? It is not. How is it anyone elses responsibility to help cover the cost of my son's medical needs? It is not, he is my son and I had him knowing full well it would cost me. It is not my responsibility to take care of everyone else. It is no ones responsibility to take care of anyone else except who they are responsible for, their family. There is a great difference between taking care of your own and taking care of your countrymen. *People are nervous about reform? How about some people just do not agree with his reform! When is this guy going to get off his high horse and realize that HE is NOT the only one with a RIGHT answer! **** how do you loyalist listen to this guy!!!*


Edited to add a face, just for you Asher. Is that intelligent enough for you?

[KrazyHorse]

I'm in the same boat. I don't want to be forced to choose between paying my rent and paying for health insurance that I don't need.

Get a better job, you ****ing hippy. Stop forcing me to subsidize your implicit catastrophic insurance (you showing up at an emergency room).

[KrazyHorse]

Unless you can prove to me that you won't let them treat you if you can't pay, you're nothing better than a leech hiding behind a libertarian principle.

[zakubandit]

KH, we are in a recession...we have a massive unemployment rate....there....are....no...jobs!