President caves in completely

[Straybow]

I don't understand what you are saying. If illegal aliens cannot get their health insurance premiums paid for the federal government, what will be paid for out of the general coffers?

[I believe this is the critical question. Although Obama's speech repeated referred to providing health insurance to "all Americans," the bill refers to "individuals," not to "Americans." The bill's definition of "individual" does not contain a limitation to just Americans. And the only provision I see limiting payments on behalf of illegals is § 246.]

"Affordability credits" refers specifically to subsidized premiums, not to payments made by the government for treatments. See sections 241-245. The government, as the "public option" payer, or the county/state-run hospital, is still obligated to pay for treatments given those who for any reason are outside the system. For example, tourists who come here and don't have health insurance. Or legal migrant workers who don't have permanent employment and are at the time unemployed. They can't be taxed or fined for not having insurance. Or illegals.

[Zkribbler]

All of which are obvious and complete lies.

1. Obama supports comprehensive immigration reform that will grant amnesty to illegal aliens currently in the US.

2. Pelosi is on video saying exactly that.

3. The Democratic healthcare bills do not require verification of immigration status. I posted an article earlier in this very thread about how Dems in the Senate are thinking about adding such a verification requirement to their version of healthcare reform in response to Joe Wilson's exposure of Obama's lies.

You are such a ****ing moron, Oerdin.

(1) You need to look up the definition of "amnesty." I'm not sure how paying a fine, going to the end of the citizenship line, etc. constitute "no punishment."

Or, are you one of those wackos who thinks it's possible to round up 12,000,000 illegal immigrants and bus them back to Mexico [or wherever] because anything less is "amnesty?"

(2) "2. Pelosi is on video saying exactly that."
Link? --because I'll bet you a b'zillion dollars that she never said that.

(3) So you think a healthcare bill is the proper vehicle for immigration reform?

[Straybow]

Well, here's Pelosi pushing the amnesty bill 2 years ago saying that all those eeevil conservatives don't want to forgive the illegal immigrants, and how awful it is to make the illegals pay a fine, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqZYb7z1RLs

[Drake Tungsten]

News flash: Obama is a liar...

FACT CHECK: Coverage requirement enforced with tax

Memo to President Barack Obama: It's a tax. Obama insisted this weekend on national television that requiring people to carry health insurance — and fining them if they don't — isn't the same thing as a tax increase. But the language of Democratic bills to revamp the nation's health care system doesn't quibble. Both the House bill and the Senate Finance Committee proposal clearly state that the fines would be a tax.

And the reason the fines are in the legislation is to enforce the coverage requirement.

"If you put something in the Internal Revenue Code, and you tell the IRS to collect it, I think that's a tax," said Clint Stretch, head of the tax policy group for Deloitte, a major accounting firm. "If you don't pay, the person who's going to come and get it is going to be from the IRS."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090921/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_insurance_tax_fact_check

Video for those who haven't seen it...

[SlowwHand]

Don't blame me.

[Lorizael]

On a scale of lying about cheating on your wife to lying about weapons of mass destruction in order to start a war, how bad is this lie?

[DinoDoc]

Somewhere around "Read my lips. No new taxes"

[Lorizael]

In other words, very bad PR-wise but completely meaningless policy-wise?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think it's a shade less than "No New Taxes", as it wasn't really a campaign pledge and wasn't done in front of a cheering crowd (which makes for a better campaign commerical)

[Theben]

The difference being, of course, if you don't pay the hospital the worst they'll do is haul yer ass to court to cough up the dough. Now not paying get fines, and if that's not paid you broke the law and get jail time.

Yay.

[Zkribbler]

Er...I have seen cases where hospitals are suing for unpaid medical bills.

This, of course, violated Steve Dallas's No. 1 Rule of Law: "Never Ever Sue Poor People."

[Asher]

I'd say it's substantively non-news.

[DinoDoc]

Well, yes. That was the near universal assessment of his sunday morning blitz.

[Drake Tungsten]

I think it's a shade less than "No New Taxes", as it wasn't really a campaign pledge and wasn't done in front of a cheering crowd (which makes for a better campaign commerical)

What are you talking about? Obama pledged not to raise taxes on 95% of American taxpayers at countless campaign events and at several of the debates...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because he's going to be all semantics on it being a tax. HWB couldn't even attempt to do that.