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Primary Thread 3: Race to Denver

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  • #136
    You're smoking something good there...

    1. Lots of people change past their 20s. First off, is the stereotype that you're liberal when you're young (20s) and conservative old (40s). It's not always true, but it's not uncommon.

    2. Lots of things change people - monetary situation, maturation, family, religion. All of those things can come much later than the 20s.

    3. My argument was that POWER makes people want more power - which is absolutely something that happens, if not to everyone, to most. "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" after all...

    I think people get into government and see things in the eys of a governmental employee, and realize that anything they do to 'lessen' government means giving up power. Even if it's not conscious, I think this happens to most - if not nearly all - elected officials.
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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    • #137
      Originally posted by snoopy369
      You're smoking something good there...

      So anyway, how old are you Snoopy?
      1. Lots of people change past their 20s. First off, is the stereotype that you're liberal when you're young (20s) and conservative old (40s). It's not always true, but it's not uncommon.
      Oh, I know that. I'm a perfect example.
      2. Lots of things change people - monetary situation, maturation, family, religion. All of those things can come much later than the 20s.
      Not when they are 50 or 60.
      3. My argument was that POWER makes people want more power - which is absolutely something that happens, if not to everyone, to most. "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" after all...
      The thing is that most people who win in politics are already powerfull. The've already been leaders.
      I think people get into government and see things in the eys of a governmental employee, and realize that anything they do to 'lessen' government means giving up power. Even if it's not conscious, I think this happens to most - if not nearly all - elected officials.
      I don't think you are making a connection between making government "less" and losing power. You must be powerfull to do that.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #138
        Originally posted by Kidicious

        Not when they are 50 or 60.
        How can you make such bad generalizations like that as if they're absolute?

        I have a much older friend for example, who changed his views and his own values in regard to Christianity only when he had reached his late 50s. At that point in his life, he finally became an active Christian.
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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        • #139
          I'm not entirely convinced that real, effective "small government" actually exists in the 21st century. Nobody is capable of delivering it, it doesn't seem to exist anywhere on earth, and it doesn't seem to have any coherent meaning - as already said, republicans rail against big government but seem to have no problem with enormous and intrusive state security departments.

          Could it be that Republicans can't deliver it because "it" doesn't exist? Is "slimming down government" really anything more than an anti-state rhetorical device?
          Lime roots and treachery!
          "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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          • #140
            Originally posted by Cyclotron
            I'm not entirely convinced that real, effective "small government" actually exists in the 21st century.

            Exactly! "small government" rhetoric contradicts the reality of our country today. And IMO, bigger government is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, look at federal government's role in 1960s in enforcing the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments; the federal government can be a powerful friend in protecting people's civil rights even as others fear that the federal government can be a powerful enemy to our civil rights.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • #141
              Big government goes hand in hand with the creation of greater wealth. Cries for smaller government are misguided if the reason has to do with wealth. If you just want to go back to a simpler time then there is an argument to me made.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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              • #142
                Originally posted by snoopy369
                1. Lots of people change past their 20s. First off, is the stereotype that you're liberal when you're young (20s) and conservative old (40s). It's not always true, but it's not uncommon.

                I wuz a Goldwater Republican! AuH20 64 --But it wore off.

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                • #143
                  Originally posted by Zkribbler



                  I wuz a Goldwater Republican! AuH20 64 --But it wore off.
                  Do you still have the scars?
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                  • #144
                    Snoopy kinda beat me to this. The Republican party favor big government, albeit differently from the way the Democratic party favors big government.
                    The Democrats voted for the war. I don't see how they are in favour of dismantling the US military.

                    Republican party favors stronger security measures such as Patriot Act, for example. Another example is how many Republicans had favored keeping sodomy laws intact, at expense of people's right to privacy. Another example Republicans favor big government, is subsidization of corporations and big business.
                    Right, look at Byrd who sits on the D side of the aisle. Where is the Democrat critiques against earmarks and pork? They are the heaviest lifters of subsidies for big business.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #145
                      Snoopy, the Republicans aren't perfect by any means wrt to small government, but I don't see where the democrats are better on this issue.

                      Democrats are not ideologically pure by any means, either ... you're massively oversimplifying things.
                      Are there any substantive policy differences between Hillary and Obama?
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                      • #146
                        In KS, Huck beat McCain 67%-18%, netting all of the state's delegates. If this continues to happen (and Romney doesn't throw his support to McCain) because there are so many states that are winner take all at least at the Congressional District level, he might actually have a chance (if a small one). But what this ultimately demonstrates is that despite literally everyone coalescing around McCain, he can't get the rank and file to turn out. Good news for Democrats.

                        And in NE and WA, Dem turnout was again record-shattering, and it looks like Hillary's gonna get stomped. Of the official results so far, Obama beat Clinton in NE's second CD 3-1 in votes and probably a higher margin in delegates. I can't imagine that the rest of NE is all that different. No news yet from LA, but turnout is low and black people are half the Dem electorate. That sounds like an Obama victory, but it's hard to say how big...
                        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                        -Bokonon

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                        • #147
                          It looks like Obama will beat Clinton at least 2-1 in both NE and WA.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • #148
                            If this continues to happen (and Romney doesn't throw his support to McCain) because there are so many states that are winner take all at least at the Congressional District level, he might actually have a chance (if a small one).
                            I thought you were too much of an atheist to believe in miracles. He'll have to win over 80% of the remaining delegates. I don't think that is reasonably going to happen.
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                            • #149
                              I did say that there's only a small chance; that wasn't a prediction...

                              If Huck manages to get that kind of margin in the remaining states (which, again, isn't likely), if the geographic distribution of his votes are uniform enough, he might get to delegate parity with McCain...
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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                              • #150
                                Huckabee would have to sweep tonight, and McCain will definitely win Washington.
                                "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

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