Primary Thread 3: Race to Denver

[Alexander I]

Bill should be retired from public life. Give him the "President Emeritus" title.

It would be bad enough to have two "Presidents Clinton" in the White House.

And he definitely should not become a Supreme Court Justice. Then every American would know our justice system is a farce.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly




Here's what I'd like to see if there's no clear winner this spring: Obama enters the convention with more delegates and more popular votes. The superdelegates basically have to go for him or risk tearing the party in two.

Lets make it messier-- Obama leads in popular vote and delegates if your do not count Florida and Michigan but trails if you count them. Then WTF would the superdelegates do? Obviously Clinton has an incentive to try to seat those delegates.

I have no idea how that would turn out but it is not impossible to have differences of opinion as to who "won" in the votes that "should" be counted. It would be a complete mess

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by MrFun
(homophobic, bigoted Mormons complaining about anti-Mormon bigotry)

Who says I'm homophobic or bigoted? If you're going to accuse me of something, you better be able to back it up with proof.

[Dinner]

I believe he's speaking about the average Mormon who is absolutely homophobic and anti-gay.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Alexander I


Who says I'm homophobic or bigoted? If you're going to accuse me of something, you better be able to back it up with proof.

The majority of Mormons tend to have a venomous hatred of gays and lesbians.

I cannot accuse you of that yet, until I come across more of your posts in debates on issues concerning gays and lesbians.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I believe he's speaking about the average Mormon who is absolutely homophobic and anti-gay.

Well I guess that's a little better than a personal attack on me. Yes, I've met some people of my faith who are anti-gay, but I wouldn't say that the average Mormon is a bigot any more than the average gay jewish black dude.

Seriously though, I would say that most Mormons are anti gay marriage, without being specifically anti-gay or homophobic.

My wife has two friends and a cousin who are gay; their families are Mormons, as are most of their friends, and they're still accepted as part of the group despite their alternative lifestyle.

[Jon Miller]

I would think that mormons would be in favor of gay marriage... some of the arguments used (not mine) would lead to allowing polygamy.

JM

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Alexander I


Well I guess that's a little better than a personal attack on me. Yes, I've met some people of my faith who are anti-gay, but I wouldn't say that the average Mormon is a bigot any more than the average gay jewish black dude.

Seriously though, I would say that most Mormons are anti gay marriage, without being specifically anti-gay or homophobic.

My wife has two friends and a cousin who are gay; their families are Mormons, as are most of their friends, and they're still accepted as part of the group despite their alternative lifestyle.

What do people mean by words, "alternative lifestyle" anyway? Is there also a monolithic straight lifestyle that can be imprinted on all straight individuals just as people try to imprint a monolithic stereotype "gay lifestyle" on all gay individuals? My daily is life is quite different from the next gay man, and so on.

And to be opposed against gay marriage means to either be bigoted against gays and lesbians, or in very least, to be insensitively ignorant about the issues concerning gays and lesbians whom some claim to be "good" friends or "close" family members with.

In other words, I suspect some families "accept" their gay or lesbian family members as long as those gays and lesbians shut up about their own concerns and do not speak up for themselves.

[Ben Kenobi]

I said this already in another thread, so briefly: Iowa and NM are trending Dem, and NH loves McCain, so you're better off looking at the 2000 map for a sense of what the Dems have to do in 2008. Basically, they have to take what gore took plus either Florida, or Ohio, or some battleground western states (CO, KS, and MT wold do it). Of those scenarios, the likliest is taking Ohio, where the GOP party apparatus has imploded -- so it will be very important to see which candidatet performs better there.

I want whatever you are smoking. MT is NOT a battleground state, neither is KA.

Yes, you did say this awhile ago, and folks asked what you were smoking back then too.

Bush won Montana by 21 percent. If Montana is a battleground state then so is Rhode Island which is the second strongest DEM state in the country, behind only Massachusetts.

Kansas, which is a new twist for you, went 26 percent. So by your analysis EVERY SINGLE DEM state is in play, including Massachusetts

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MrFun


What do people mean by words, "alternative lifestyle" anyway? Is there also a monolithic straight lifestyle that can be imprinted on all straight individuals just as people try to imprint a monolithic stereotype "gay lifestyle" on all gay individuals? My daily is life is quite different from the next gay man, and so on.

And to be opposed against gay marriage means to either be bigoted against gays and lesbians, or in very least, to be insensitively ignorant about the issues concering gays and lesbians whom some claim to be "good" friends or "close" family members with.

In other words, I suspect some families "accept" their gay or lesbian family members as long as those gays and lesbians shut up about their own concerns and do not speak up for themselves.

There is a 'gay' lifestyle that is far away from the 'norm' of settling down into a stable monogamous relationship. This is what gets displayed in gay pride occasions/etc.

I think that the reason this lifestyle exists is because society doesn't support stable gay relationships through marriage, which is a reason I support gay marriage.

Jon Miller
( Homosexuals, statistically, have about 8 times the partners of the heterosexual populace. The issue is why do homosexuals, more often then heterosexuals, not form stable monogamous relationships. )

[Alexander I]

Start a new thread, MrFun.

And you accuse me of whining about bigotry?

[Ramo]

Bush won Montana by 21 percent. If Montana is a battleground state then so is Rhode Island which is the second strongest DEM state in the country, behind only Massachusetts.

Clinton won MT in '92, it elected an extremely popular Dem Guv in '04 (Schweitzer) and a new Dem Senator in '06 (Tester) to join its other Dem Senator (Baucus). IIRC, the state House is Dem and the state Senate is GOP by one vote. While I wouldn't call it a battleground state yet, it is not RI.

Lets make it messier-- Obama leads in popular vote and delegates if your do not count Florida and Michigan but trails if you count them. Then WTF would the superdelegates do? Obviously Clinton has an incentive to try to seat those delegates.

It appears that MI might have a later caucus to reinfranchise themselves. If that happens, FL would almost certainly follow suit.

[Dinner]

Because they're allowed to marry?

[snoopy369]

Given the divorce rate, I highly doubt marriage is related. I suspect it is many things, perhaps having a child being the major factor (how many couples stay together for the children?)...

[Zkribbler]

From the L.A. Times:

Romney ends campaign for presidency
Move effectively hands nomination to McCain

"I feel I have to now stand aside, for our party and for our country," he says.