Tell me about Huckabee

[Ben Kenobi]

Fundamentalist christians believe this as well. Black people are the "sons of Ham" who IIRC was the 'bad' son of Noah. This was some of the rational behind slavery (rehabilitating them)...

Is that why the black Africans are more conservative Christians then most folks here?

It was the evangelicals who banned slavery anyways, saying that they were God's children.

Any evidence for your position snoopy?

[snoopy369]

I'm not saying all fundamentalist christians believe that, but some do. (Not sure how many do anymore, to be honest, but it was at one time the case.) Either way, holding it against Mormons is unfair (as they don't believe it anymore, as far as I know).

[Dinner]

Huckabee wanted to isolate AIDS patients

By ANDREW DeMILLO, Associated Press Writer Sat Dec 8, 5:13 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Mike Huckabee once advocated isolating AIDS patients from the general public, opposed increased federal funding in the search for a cure and said homosexuality could "pose a dangerous public health risk."
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As a candidate for a U.S. Senate seat in 1992, Huckabee answered 229 questions submitted to him by The Associated Press. Besides a quarantine, Huckabee suggested that Hollywood celebrities fund AIDS research from their own pockets, rather than federal health agencies.

Huckabee said Saturday that his comments came at a time when the public was still learning about HIV and AIDS and promised to do "everything possible to transform the promise of a vaccine and a cure into reality."

In 1992, Huckabee wrote, "If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague."

"It is difficult to understand the public policy towards AIDS. It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents."

The AP submitted the questionnaire to both candidates in the 1992 senate race; only Huckabee responded. Incumbent Sen. Dale Bumpers won his fourth term; Huckabee was elected lieutenant governor the next year and became governor in 1996.

When asked about AIDS research in 1992, Huckabee complained that AIDS research received an unfair share of federal dollars when compared to cancer, diabetes and heart disease.

"In light of the extraordinary funds already being given for AIDS research, it does not seem that additional federal spending can be justified," Huckabee wrote. "An alternative would be to request that multimillionaire celebrities, such as Elizabeth Taylor (,) Madonna and others who are pushing for more AIDS funding be encouraged to give out of their own personal treasuries increased amounts for AIDS research."

Huckabee said in a prepared statement released by his campaign Saturday afternoon that he called for quarantine when there was a lot of confusion about how AIDS is spread. He said he wanted at the time to follow traditional medical practices used for dealing with tuberculosis and other infectious diseases.

"We now know that the virus that causes AIDS is spread differently, with a lower level of contact than with TB," Huckabee said. "But looking back almost 20 years, my concern was the uncertain risk to the general population — if we got it wrong, many people would die needlessly. My concern was safety first, political correctness last."

When Huckabee wrote his answers in 1992, it was common knowledge that AIDS could not be spread by casual contact. In late 1991, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said there were 195,718 AIDS patients in the country and that 126,159 people had died from the syndrome.

The nation had an increased awareness of AIDS at the time because pro basketball star Magic Johnson had recently disclosed he carried the virus responsible for it. Johnson retired but returned to the NBA briefly during the 1995-96 season.

Since becoming a presidential candidate this year, Huckabee has supported increased federal funding for AIDS research through the National Institutes of Health.

"My administration will be the first to have an overarching strategy for dealing with HIV and AIDS here in the United States, with a partnership between the public and private sectors that will provide necessary financing and a realistic path toward our goals," Huckabee said in a statement posted on his campaign Web site last month.

Also in the wide-ranging AP questionnaire in 1992, Huckabee said, "I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk."

A Southern Baptist preacher, Huckabee has been a favorite among social conservatives for his vocal opposition to gay marriage. In 2003, Huckabee said that the U.S. Supreme Court was probably right to strike down anti-sodomy laws, but that states still should be able to restrict things such as gay marriage or domestic partner benefits.

"What people do in the privacy of their own lives as adults is their business," Huckabee said. "If they bring it into the public square and ask me as a taxpayer to support it or to endorse it, then it becomes a matter of public discussion and discourse."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071208/ap_on_el_pr/huckabee_aids

[Ben Kenobi]

And he has more to spare. Huck peaked too soon. It's a blessing for Mitt that there are polls a month out that show him behind by a double-digit margin. Now the corporate wing of the GOP is going to throw everything it has against Huck. There's going to be a polling blackout during Christmas, and if Romney comes in close to over Huck, he's a shoe-in in NH, etc., etc.

The corporate wing of the GOP is not behind Romney. Not sure why you believe this to be true.

Huckabee hurts Romney more then anyone his rapid rise, has seen a decline in Romney's numbers more then anyone else. Either he will reverse the decline, or just vanish off the map as his supporters go elsewhere.

[snoopy369]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham,_son_of_Noah

According to Genesis 9:20–25, Noah began to raise grapes after the flood, and became drunk one day. While drunk, he lay naked in his tent. Ham saw his father naked, and told his brothers Shem and Japheth about it. Shem and Japheth went into the tent with their faces away from him, and covered him. When Noah awoke, he realized what had been done to him, and cursed Canaan, son of Ham, to be the "servant of servants" of Shem and Japheth.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

The "curse of Ham" has been used by some members of Abrahamic religions to justify racism and the enslavement of people of African ancestry, who were thought to be descendants of Ham (often called Hamites), either through Canaan or his older brothers. This racist theory was common during the 18th-20th centuries, but has been largely abandoned even by the most conservative theologians since the mid-20th century.

Sounds like the Mormons abandoned it about the same time as the rest of the group...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


He said Aids patients should be "isolated" He denys ever saying they should be "locked up". Expect to hear more.

As if wanting to isolate a minority group sounds better than using other words/terms anyway.

[DanS]

There's really no establishment GOP candidate this time. Makes it much more interesting.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm not saying all fundamentalist christians believe that, but some do. (Not sure how many do anymore, to be honest, but it was at one time the case.) Either way, holding it against Mormons is unfair (as they don't believe it anymore, as far as I know).

Well from my experience it ain't true at all. I've never heard that theory, "black people come from Ham, and Ham was a bad son."

Wikipedia is the best source? Surely if fundamentalists believed in it, there would be a source from them saying that this was the case.

As for the Mormons, evangelicals don't like them, because they claim that the bible is corrupt, unless it's the book of Mormon, they add scripture, they have the whole bit about the temple garments the planets, you can become your own God, etc.

Those are big issues for any evanglical, and when Romney simply says, my faith is not a big issue, it doesn't help him because to these evangelicals, faith is the most important thing in their lives.

Huckabee resonates with quite a few of them.

To be honest, I'm more worried about McCain then Romney. McCain is still hanging on and the longer he stays, the better he looks.

[Cartimandua]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Google Mormon man god doctrine and while you're at it look up the Mormon magic under pants. Oh, and then look at how the book of Mormon says black people are cursed by god (that's why they're black ) and how up to 1978 blacks couldn't be Mormon priests because they were to "tainted".

Scientology is just about the only religion out there even more nuts then Mormonism. It's clearly not even remotely Christian.

Oerdin, are you for real? Don't you know that Alexander I is a Mormon, he knows PERSONALLY what the Mormons believe. There is also no need to thread-jack this into another anti-Mormon thread.

Back on topic, Huckabee sounds like he is pushing his religion to the entire country. A country filled with people who all believe different things. It doesn't seem like a smart way to campaign, despite the push to get evangelical voters.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


How do you isolate AIDS victims from all other people without removing them from the general population? It's impossible. They'd have to be put into camps. The guy is just attempting to back away from his previous policy. No one will call him a flip flopper for this?

"i meant they shouldnt give blood, or practice dentistry, or whatever, thats what I meant by isolate" Lotsa ways to back off. But like I said, its up for debate.

[Ramo]

The corporate wing of the GOP is not behind Romney. Not sure why you believe this to be true.

I didn't say it was. It's behind Not_Huckabee though..

Huckabee hurts Romney more then anyone his rapid rise, has seen a decline in Romney's numbers more then anyone else.

Huckabee is hurting everyone, pretty much. He's probably hurting Thompson as much Romney...

[DanS]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
AFAICT, Romney has only brought it up when he's been challenged on it. I searched his website, and it didn't say anything about it there.

And another thing, why didn't Krauthammer mention Giuliani's Roman Catholicism? If we take some at their word, RCs aren't christian either.

Haven't heard Giuliani complain.

[Alexander I]

Oh, goody. Now the real fun begins.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Google Mormon man god doctrine

Yes, Mormons believe they can become like God.

Originally posted by Oerdin
and while you're at it look up the Mormon magic under pants.

I'm wearing temple garments right now. They're not magic. Oh, and it's not just underpants -- there's an undershirt too. But I've discussed these in another thread.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Oh, and then look at how the book of Mormon says black people are cursed by god (that's why they're black )

It doesn't.

Originally posted by Oerdin
and how up to 1978 blacks couldn't be Mormon priests

True.

Originally posted by Oerdin
because they were to "tainted".

False.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
As for the Mormons, evangelicals don't like them, because they claim that the bible is corrupt,

False. The exact words are: "We believe the Bible as far as it is translated correctly."

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
unless it's the book of Mormon,

The Book of Mormon is meant to be a supplement to the Bible, not its replacement.

Now let's get back to Huckabee, shall we?

[Whoha]

Re: Tell me about Huckabee

Originally posted by DanS
Educate me about Huckabee.

Don't know too much about him. He came out of nowhere to lead Iowa by a good amount. Of course, the "vetting" of him is on in full force in the press. How did he come to lead Iowa? Was he generally considered competent and well liked during his time in office in Arkansas?

I'm provisionally for Guiliani, but haven't made a final decision. I've got an open mind about it all.

He coaches his support for free trade with weasel words, you either won't like him, or you will, but there is no way to be sure which way he'll turn.

Also the whole commutation/pardoning issue will probably reveal malfeasance if held to the microscope.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Well from my experience it ain't true at all. I've never heard that theory, "black people come from Ham, and Ham was a bad son."

Wikipedia is the best source? Surely if fundamentalists believed in it, there would be a source from them saying that this was the case.

Perhaps you're not among true fundamentalist christians Either way, as I said, I don't know how many believe it now ... it was common a century ago however.

Wiki is the easiest source for me to call, because I don't care to do a research project into this. Suffice it to say that until you bring a better source it should stand. It is common knowledge among historians of the time as far as I'm concerned, and I've heard it in numerous (historical) contexts in my years.

As for the Mormons, evangelicals don't like them, because they claim that the bible is corrupt, unless it's the book of Mormon, they add scripture, they have the whole bit about the temple garments the planets, you can become your own God, etc.

Evangelicals don't like them because they are a different sect of their religion, same as Baptists don't like Catholics; they can get together on not liking this more-different sect. That's not exactly a surprise... the reasons are the same as pretty much any sect disliking another, e.g. "they do things differently".

A lot of the same kind of concerns were brought up with JFK, but add on "he'll take orders from the Pope". Catholics add books (or subtract them, your choice) from the bible, and support a significantly different translation than the Baptists/many protestants; use their own symbols and vestements, and believe that they EAT THE BODY OF THEIR GOD :shock: Oh, wait, that's normal.

To me, Mormonism probably began as a bit of a wacky cult/sect/religion/whatever but has matured into a relatively normal religion, with all of the normal weirdness that is innate in religion (the symbols and differences are important in defining the religion), and has the usual number of wackos that any religion does. I doubt Christianity was any less wacky for the time in AD 150-350 ...