Rugby!

[Havak]

Well you know somethings up when he compliments the Wallabies more than you do!

I'm just trying to be Mr Nice today.

[Havak]

Totally off topic here guys but I just read this on the BBC news site

Australian school boys seeking an under-age drink in pubs made a crucial mistake when they forged proof-of-age documents. The photographs used in their faked driving licences showed the boys wearing school uniforms.

The lads are from Brisbane apparently - so I guess Finbar isn't surprised by their razor sharp intelligence?

[Caligastia]

The heat must get to them up there...

[finbar]

They're that much closer to the sun, y'see. Bakes their brains. And it's the honest to goodness truth that some Queenslanders didn't want daylight savings - Qld and WA don't adopt it when everyone else does - because they thought the extra hour of sunlight would fade the curtains.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
They're that much closer to the sun, y'see. Bakes their brains. And it's the honest to goodness truth that some Queenslanders didn't want daylight savings - Qld and WA don't adopt it when everyone else does - because they thought the extra hour of sunlight would fade the curtains.

Have you heard any of those tasmanian sayings before?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

And I’m sure you notice I’m ignoring that spurious U-21 result – pure fluke.

I forgot to mention that Australia had won their two matches by a combined total of 132 points. Admittedly, one opponent was Romania.

I think the Pumas look good enough to replace South Africa in the tri-nations to be honest with you?

I gather the Pumas are only a fraction as good away from home.

In the second half I guess they were yeah – but I thought they held up well in the first half. Maybe I mis-read it. Most of the time the ball flew out your scrum in the traditional Wallaby style anyway so I may have been deceived by that?

We did go off the boil in the second half. Happened against the Maori too. Eddie's well aware of it.

Wow, that’s a little worrying, White is perhaps the least pedantic ref we have. Just keep your eyes on Steve Lander in the tri-nations.

I’m afraid it is interpretation again – and the Wallabies will have to learn to play NH refs regardless of what Herald writers think of them because NH refs won’t change to suit SH teams, and vice versa of course. If you play NZ in the RWC final it is very likely you will have an English or French ref (I doubt the IRB would sanction a Bok for that game – politics).

At least he communicated well with the players, which is something NH refs haven't done in the past. The point of the Sydney Morning Herald column was mainly that White was blowing the whistle for the most technical things - where, for example, offside was shown, on replay, to be a matter of inches. Yes, there are different interpretations, but you can be overly technical.

I agree and I have. Finnegan on Wilko in Melbourne ring any bells with you? An awful late challenge and the (Bok) ref did nothing.

Finnegan, as I've said a number of times, can be an absolute idiot. When he's not being an idiot, he can be a very powerful, damaging player.

On Saturday the Frenchman was clearly committed to the tackle and it was fractional – but still he was in the wrong and he was told it very clearly. Larkham is targeted all the time of course – by everyone who plays you. I can understand it annoys badly.

All Fly halves need protecting better from late take outs, but until you get Finny to stop lining up the opposition Fly half you can’t seriously expect Larkham to get any breaks there either?

They're not lining up Larkham because Finnegan targeted someone or targets people. They're going to line him up regardless to take him out of the game. My comment about Finnegan - above - stands. I don't think the French hit on Larkham was fractional. I also think he had time to abort, but, given who was being tackled, he went ahead. Still, at least he used his arms. Unlike Butch James.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by finbar
How bizarre. What time does the rugby normally start? Here, it's either 7pm or 7.30pm. It might also have something to do with TV coverage. Who is televising the soccer and who is televising the rugby? If it's the same outlet, that would explain it. Media rules, y'see.

Well actually, it was opposing free-to-air TV stations that aired these two sports events. They tend to compete for viewers. The World Cup was on TVNZ, and the Rugby free on TV3. I guess it was in the interests of sports fans everywhere.

Isn't that lovely of them?

[Havak]

Liked the curtains thing

Admittedly, one opponent was Romania

It's really sad how far they have fallen - there's no enjoyment in putting umtpeen points on a team is there?

I gather the Pumas are only a fraction as good away from home

They play the Boks away Saturday so we should be able to tell after that.

Eddie's well aware of it.

I don't think the panic button needs to be pressed - the French pack is immense and they are not a team you can keep on the back foot all game. The best way to play France is to provoke a bust-up in the pack very early on, as their discipline can fall apart big time if you do. Old fashioned rugby there I guess.

offside was shown, on replay, to be a matter of inches

Yep he's a great ref all right - makes great judgement calls like this. Unless you were arguing he should let offside go? Offside is offside after all - be it an inch or a foot it is against the laws of the game.

They're going to line him up regardless to take him out of the game

They are indeed - and I do not condone it, please be very clear on that.

My point was more that international flankers will line up the opposing fly half and he will often be hit late - and I simply cited that the Wallabies give as well as receive in that respect -which rather deflates any indignation felt by the nation?

It happens to all teams and I'm not sure it is easily stopped - most refs will bottle using a card for margins as slim as that (and I grant you we disagree on the margin involved) And yes the french lad should have stopped if he could have - without any doubt. He isn't known as a dirty player though.

Butch James - I can't see him tolerated much longer to be honest. A shoulder barge is not a tackle in any way. He will be head butting in the 'tackle' next?

[LDiCesare]

French pack is immense and they are not a team you can keep on the back foot all game. The best way to play France is to provoke a bust-up in the pack very early on, as their discipline can fall apart big time if you do. Old fashioned rugby there I guess.

Yes, that looks like England playing France all right.
I agree with those who think the ref was a bit whistle-happy. He was still good, however.
As for the late tackle on Larkham, I think Betsen could hardly stop before the tackle. I also think the pressure Larkham was under has been nothing compared to that Wilkinson suffered in the tournament against France.

[finbar]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt


Well actually, it was opposing free-to-air TV stations that aired these two sports events. They tend to compete for viewers. The World Cup was on TVNZ, and the Rugby free on TV3. I guess it was in the interests of sports fans everywhere.

Isn't that lovely of them?

TV Networks putting audience interests first? Oh what joy!

Edit. I just checked our Cable TV guide. I didn't see the AB-Irish game, but the telecast was scheduled for 5.30pm our time - 7.30pm Kiwi time - so unless there was a late change to the game's starting time, the game was played at the normal time and the telecast was delayed. Unheardof in NZ, I'd've thought, as MrW said earlier.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Liked the curtains thing

I have a hard time convincing people it's not a joke. There were Letters to the Editor on the matter. They're documented.

They play the Boks away Saturday so we should be able to tell after that.

With the way the Boks are performing, I'm not sure it's going to be a fair test. Still, if the Pumas go down, maybe it is.

I don't think the panic button needs to be pressed - the French pack is immense and they are not a team you can keep on the back foot all game. The best way to play France is to provoke a bust-up in the pack very early on, as their discipline can fall apart big time if you do. Old fashioned rugby there I guess.

Actually, from memory, the Wallaby pack outweighed the French outfit on Saturday night. Eddie Jones has said he's determined to get more muscle into the forwards.

Yep he's a great ref all right - makes great judgement calls like this. Unless you were arguing he should let offside go? Offside is offside after all - be it an inch or a foot it is against the laws of the game.

Well, I'm one of the greatest pedants to walk the earth, but I think a matter of inches - in this case - is silly. It's not a matter of condoning offside play, it's the problem of dealing with incredibly marginal situations - you're eventually going to get it wrong.

My point was more that international flankers will line up the opposing fly half and he will often be hit late - and I simply cited that the Wallabies give as well as receive in that respect -which rather deflates any indignation felt by the nation?

I think you're allowing Owen Finnegan to colour your thoughts.

It happens to all teams and I'm not sure it is easily stopped - most refs will bottle using a card for margins as slim as that (and I grant you we disagree on the margin involved) And yes the french lad should have stopped if he could have - without any doubt. He isn't known as a dirty player though.

Granted, there have been worse hits on Larkham than that one. I think a card - for the more blatant cases - is the way to go.

Butch James - I can't see him tolerated much longer to be honest. A shoulder barge is not a tackle in any way. He will be head butting in the 'tackle' next?

The fact that he continues to get away with it indicates that strong action hasn't been taken. I remember one game where he was warned three times for it. I can only recall him ever getting one card.

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

As for the late tackle on Larkham, I think Betsen could hardly stop before the tackle. I also think the pressure Larkham was under has been nothing compared to that Wilkinson suffered in the tournament against France.

The late tackle aside, Larkham was hardly under any pressure at all in the game. That's why he was able to play as he did. One of the keys to shutting down the Wallabies is to shut down Larkham.

My problem with evaluating the Wallaby performance last Saturday night is that, because I'm not altogether familiar with the French outfit, I'm not sure exactly how strong the French team was. How did last Saturday night's French team rate against - say, the team that won the 6 Nations?

[Havak]

Yes, that looks like England playing France all right.

Yes we have had some classics all right – was it 1991 in Paris when the packs flared up five minutes in and two French forwards had been sent off by half time?

There were Letters to the Editor on the matter. They're documented.

That’s actually even funnier!

Still, if the Pumas go down, maybe it is.

Strange isn’t it – a game where if the Pumas win it tells us very little. As you say though if they go down it speaks volumes about them entering the Tri-nations for a while?

Eddie Jones has said he's determined to get more muscle into the forwards.

I think the pack did look a weakness for you in the autumn tests against England and France. I think progress has already been made though based on Saturday. Eddie was a front row man himself right?

you're eventually going to get it wrong.

That’s a very reasonable point, but then all refs get it wrong in certain areas don’t you think – we can’t have a video ref for every blow up - unless we all adopt the SH theory of blowing the whistle only after a try?

Seriously though it was quite funny to see written down the idea Mr White was slightly ‘bad’ because he got marginal decisions RIGHT?

I think you're allowing Owen Finnegan to colour your thoughts

He does kind of stick in your mind does he not? I would agree with you when his head is in gear he is an awesome player at times.

There are teams that mercilessly target fly halves though – our friends RSA spring to mind? I’m certain Larkham will receive some heavy hits from the Boks later this season.

I think a card - for the more blatant cases - is the way to go.

Agreed. I am worried refs will still bottle it however.

I can only recall him ever getting one card.

Here is a thought for you – most of his worst examples have been at home. Takes a brave ref to card a Bok at home don’t you think? It will be interesting to see him at Twickers (and with an Aussie ref?)

How did last Saturday night's French team rate against - say, the team that won the 6 Nations?

The comparison is not favourable. For example against England one thing they did do was close down Wilko effectively. He was given no space at all to work in (partly due to Mr Betsen again if I recall). I’ll be interested to see what the French lads think? It’s no secret that France’s main weakness is lack of consistency – as witnessed by them beating England superbly in Paris, but struggling against the Celts in the other games – the Welsh game is particular was an awful game for them.

[LDiCesare]

France played muxh better against england and Ireland than Australia. The rest of the matches of the 6 nations were not as good.
Mostly, the front row lacks De Villiers, who is good and rarely penalized, and lacked cohesion. Galthie, the scrum half, was also a severe miss. Michalak was good enough, but Galthie is also the captain and would probably have told his forwards how to behave.
Betsen (number 6) made lots of fouls he usually doesn't do, and was hardly a nuisance to the 10, while he totally prevented Wilkinson from playing.
I think the team probably suffered from time lag too, and are tired as it is the end of season for us, and most of tem have been playing to the half finals, 2 weeks before flying to the Southern hemisphere.
Thus, they can do much better.

[finbar]

Interesting comments on the French team, Havak and LDiCesare. Thanks.

Tonight Australia A played France A for the the second time. Australia A won 37-34 (with a converted try after the hooter) after being down 13-31 early in the second half. The French had two players sent off in the last ten minutes for very silly professional fouls when the Australians were blitzing them.

The French included 7 of their Test squad in the team. Early on, their discipine was terrible, giving away silly penalties. Then they settled down and played some terrific rugby. Heymans on the wing showed blistering speed and saved a try late in the second half with a brilliant tackle. The consensus was that he has probably played his way into the Test side. Barrau and Cermeno also had top games.

But they really lost the plot in the last 10-15 minutes. Australia A suddenly clicked when Duncan Macrae came on as replacement 5/8. They went berserk and stormed home.