Rugby!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

Mind you we were amateur back then

Spare me! You mob led the way in shamateurism.

[Havak]

Utter nonsense that one Finbar. Where do you get that idea from?

I'm genuinely curious - we were last, slowest, and most painfully dragged into the Professional era. Shamateurism is ONLY associated with the Wallabies and Kiwis for me.

It's hard to see how you could argue this - do you remember the fuss when Campo was overtly paid in Italy and still allowed to don a Wallaby shirt? He, and many of your countrymen, launched shamateurism on us, whilst England plodded along with Doctors, lawyers ,police officers and all such great and good types.

I know for a fact that as late as 1994 England players were not actually being paid to tour or play - only travel and hotels were funded by the Union, so I have to laugh that one off Finbar, as we both know the Wallabies were being nicely paid by then?

[Tamerlin]

The first time I saw Dean Richards against the Stade Toulousain (I think it was in 96-97), and as far as I can remember he was then at the top of his carreer, he was also an active policeman in the "real" life.
All the players of the english team had a job as all the French players did.

I'am not sure at all, but I think the first professional english player was Mike Catt while all the SH players were already labelled as professionals by all the TV and mewspapers of the NH.

Am I wrong Havak ?

Of course, the word "amateurism" was a great hypocrisy as many players were professionnals in disguise.

Caligastia : no, I don't blame the SH for bringing professionalism, it was a kind of necessary evolution.

Just one last word, I'am working (for the moment) in the same group of company as Hugues Miorin (a famous second row player of the Stade Toulousain now going to Colomiers) who is directing its own company. It has not been detrimental to its career, many french players are actually "half-professionals" but the younger generation, at least the most talented players, are becoming "full time professionals".

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
And Caligastia - I promise no more politics - although I too was confused as Finbar and I were not arguing at all!

I know you guys were agreeing, but not all who post in this thread will agree on politics, and if someone who disagrees with you cant resist joining in, things could go downhill...

Lets just stick to rugby. Thats all I am saying.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Utter nonsense that one Finbar. Where do you get that idea from?

Yeah, okay, it was a baseless allegation. I can only claim that I was either drunk or possessed by the mendacious spirit of John O'Neill. Or both.

There are actually a couple of clubs in the Sydney comp who remain strictly amateur - proudly so - and they're doing it tough with other clubs dangling baits.

[LDiCesare]

Australia 29 France 17
That was expected, though.
I think Australia played well but nothing exceptional except that they have a very good lineout.
France, on the other side, played very badly. They made fouls at half their scrums and most lineouts, resulting in a lack of balls which gave the Australians lots of ammunition to attack. That resulted in 2 nice tries in first half. On both, the French winger played badly, making a bad defense choice (he tried to stop the winger while Elhorga was there, and let Latham score) or forgetting to tackle Larkham.
I think changing the whole first row was not a good idea after all, considering the catastrophic scrum and lineout we had. No chance winning a game without gaining the ball first.
So well played, Australia, let's hope the French do better next week.

[Caligastia]

Well my predictions werent too far off the mark. I ended up being generous to Ireland as they ended up losing to the All Blacks by 32 points not 20. My prediction for France v Australia was almost spot-on as France lost by 12 not 10. I wont be so generous to the NH sides next time. Actually I think France will be a greater challenge for Australia next week as a few of their injured playmakers will be returning. Also Australia butchered a lot of opportunities with handling errors this week, so if they do the same next week France could be victorious.

New Zealand 40 Ireland 8

The All Blacks looked ordinary in the first half with a lot of handling errors, but really came back strongly in the second. They are improving every game and I look forward to seeing them play Fiji next week.

[finbar]

Mmmm. The Wallabies were an improvement on the week before against the Maori. I'll settle for improvement every week in light of the long season ahead. I did notice, though, a couple of changes of method - Larkham and Gregan were alternating at half back; Larkham at 5/8 was standing a lot deeper than usual, and the backs, usually in a fairly flat line, were also deeper.

It was also good to see Kefu, Finnegan and George Smith getting much more involved. It was heartening to watch them breaking the line and getting involved in some really good cleaning out.

I suspect the Wendell Sailor experiment will end with Ben Tune's return. Wendell has to do more than just break tackles. While he got involved in rucks and mauls, there were a couple of occasions when his lack of a kicking game was exposed. At one point he ran in a circle rather than kick. In fact, apparently, he went through the entire S12 season without kicking once. Sterling Mortlock had a very strong game, so I hope he and Matt Burke will swap wing and centre spots; Daniel Herbert, who is playing his best rugby for a while, should stay in the centres, and Tune should replace Wendell.

But as LDiCesare says, the French really handed the game to the Wallabies. They coughed up the ball, gave away silly penalties - the #6 in particular - and were never really in a position to exert pressure, a recipe the Wallabies thrive on. OTOH, it wasn't the team that won the 6 Nations, so I'm anticipating a different team - and a much stronger performance - next week.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Well my predictions werent too far off the mark.

Well, Scotland did thump your adopted bretheren.

Edit. Ooops! I just checked back a few pages. Sorry, Caligastia, it was our Leicester Lad who tipped Scotland, not you. OTOH, his tip did seem to be based on, um, bile rather than anything else.

The All Blacks looked ordinary in the first half with a lot of handling errors, but really came back strongly in the second. They are improving every game and I look forward to seeing them play Fiji next week.

Methinks - or hopes - the Wallabies and ABs are going to continue to improve game by game.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Just a point that amuses me no end, and surprises too - considering this is the centre for the Church of Rugby Worship.

The ABs- Ireland game here last night was, I am told, DELAYED because of one of the two World Cup Quarterfinals on that night. South Korea Spain started at 6:30, and the rugby here at about 8:30 - giving plenty of time for the football to end before the rugby.

On a similar note, Wellington last night at midnight (normally pretty busy on a mild winter night) was nearly empty, with only a few dozen rugby fans and their assorted female hangers-on visible in some of the normally busiest parts of town - I can only imagine everyone eles was far more interested in Senegal's performance against Turkey than in reliving the rugby!

Incredible. In New Zealand. It's almost treason.

[finbar]

How bizarre. What time does the rugby normally start? Here, it's either 7pm or 7.30pm. It might also have something to do with TV coverage. Who is televising the soccer and who is televising the rugby? If it's the same outlet, that would explain it. Media rules, y'see.

BTW, do you know if Christian Cullen played club footy this weekend? He was told to by the AB selectors, apparently. Or else.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Well, Scotland did thump your adopted bretheren.

Edit. Ooops! I just checked back a few pages. Sorry, Caligastia, it was our Leicester Lad who tipped Scotland, not you. OTOH, his tip did seem to be based on, um, bile rather than anything else.

They actually did end up showing it on Fox Sports world, but they didnt post it on the TV schedule till the last minute, so I didnt get to see it. Probably a good thing...my wife wouldnt have enjoyed seeing the US team taken to pieces.

Methinks - or hopes - the Wallabies and ABs are going to continue to improve game by game.

I think so too. As usual, the Tri-nations is something to look forward to this year.

England's squad of younguns beat Argentina convincingly, but I wont get to see that one either. Im sure Havak will have something to say about it though.

[finbar]

Caligastia, I noticed last week - but forgot to post - that New Zealand thumped England by 40+ in the Under 21 World Cup.

[finbar]

A question for our Leicester Lad. Havak - I was talking to someone the other day who said the English club Bath don't field a #13 jersey because of (something to do with) the death of a player. Is this true? Or a myth?

[Havak]

Just a quick post to pick up on that last thing - I'll try to catch up with the thread ASAP and comment on the weekends rugby, which was generally high class stuff.

The answer Finbar is - not sure!

Before the game went Professional here in 95 Bath hardly ever fielded a 13 shirt meaning 14 was outside centre and the fullback wore 16. The problem is I'm not sure of the story behind it - and neither are any of the Bath fans I've spoken to about it (and keep in mind my speaking to Bath fans is like a Waratahs and Reds fan having a friendly chat)

They certainly wear the 13 shirt now - the TV contract with Sky insisted on consistency (so Tigers and Bristol gave up lettered shirts as well as Bath regaining the 13 shirt).

Sorry I couldn't be more help!

Incidentally Timmy Horan has actually refused to wear the 13 shirt at Saracens any more after a season of bad injury every time he pulled that 'jixed' shirt on - wonder what the TV will make of that?