Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[Imran Siddiqui]

By your logic I could never feel proud of my parents, and that would be a real shame.

You've followed NONE of my logic. I said it was OK to be proud of achievements.

For the same reason I can be proud my Grandfather helped liberate Europe in 1944-45. For the same reason I can feel proud that by Grandmother and Great Grandmother resigned from the Daughters of the Revolution when they refused to allow Marion Anderson to sing. It feels good to be proud of those we love and with whom we have a connection, even those remotely via ancestry. There's nothing wrong with it.

EXACTLY! You are proud of their achievements, not that they are who they are. You aren't proud of your family name, but of what your family did.

THAT is my logic.

[Boris Godunov]

But is anyone proud to be an American just because they are American? I think being proud to be an American usually is tied, for the vast majority of people, to a sense of American achievement.

Likewise, Black Pride is about celebrating Black achievement, isn't it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

But is anyone proud to be an American just because they are American? I think being proud to be an American usually is tied, for the vast majority of people, to a sense of American achievement.

Likewise, Black Pride is about celebrating Black achievement, isn't it?

In both cases, it seems most of the time it isn't. There are intelligent people who are proud of America's achievements or black peoples' achievements... but a vast majority of them (from my view) seem to simply be proud to be simply American or black. That is what I'm against. No need to be proud of something you were born with.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But is anyone proud to be an American just because they are American? I think being proud to be an American usually is tied, for the vast majority of people, to a sense of American achievement.

Likewise, Black Pride is about celebrating Black achievement, isn't it?

In both cases, it seems most of the time it isn't. There are intelligent people who are proud of America's achievements or black peoples' achievements... but a vast majority of them (from my view) seem to simply be proud to be simply American or black. That is what I'm against. No need to be proud of something you were born with.

Really? I can honestly say I've never met anyone who professed to be proud to be an American solely for the name alone. Same thing with Blacks. Maybe I've been sheltered...

Still, I see no reason to be "against" it. It may not jive for you, but why begrudge it to others?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Boris... Most of the people that were proud to be American, where simply proud just for the name alone. And I find it disheartening when some black pride people don't even know George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington.

Still, I see no reason to be "against" it. It may not jive for you, but why begrudge it to others?

Because, I think a society in which people are proud for what they are born as, instead of what they've achieved is doomed to failure.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Boris... Most of the people that were proud to be American, where simply proud just for the name alone.

I see no way to verify or disprove this statement, but I am skeptical of it. Many people who are proud to be American may say so for false/exaggerated achievements, but I really doubt even a large minority absolutely do not associate national pride with national achievement.

And I find it disheartening when some black pride people don't even know George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington.

And I find it distressing most American high schoolers can't locate their own state on a map. But that is not all that relevant to this argument.

Still, I see no reason to be "against" it. It may not jive for you, but why begrudge it to others?

Because, I think a society in which people are proud for what they are born as, instead of what they've achieved is doomed to failure.

First, I still dispute that is the basis for national/ethnic pride celebrations. Second, can we say "Going to extremes?" Doomed to failure? Maybe doomed to have people rolling their eyes at them.

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Orange did no such thing. He cited an observed phenomena and then asked why it occurs. He was posting a legitmate, objective query into why the things he sees are happening.

And he certainly did not attack anyone's right to start and name a club whatever they want.

using the observed phenomena theory are we? okay, then, if that is indeed the case, one could merely do a scientic study; interview a representive sample of uni students asking them to identify their friends and aquantances racially. then ask them to explain why they know and associate w/those groups of people. if one were being objective and scientific that is.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by BunnyGrrl


using the observed phenomena theory are we? okay, then, if that is indeed the case, one could merely do a scientic study; interview a representive sample of uni students asking them to identify their friends and aquantances racially. then ask them to explain why they know and associate w/those groups of people. if one were being objective and scientific that is.

Um...yeah, except this is a message board where people come to post such questions and see what others think. I don't think orange or anyone else for that matter posts here looking/expecting to get scientific answers through in-depth research studies. He just wants other people's opinions as to why it might be that way.

[Lonestar]

Unspoken Black/White segregation is, of course, unheard of in the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M.

There's something to be said about a regimented life.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Who says you can only be proud of your own achievements? My mom says she's proud of me for things I've done. Should I tell her to shut the f*ck up for trying to steal my glory?

In this case you are your mother's achievement. Do you think its easy to raise good kids?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Caligastia



In this case you are your mother's achievement. Do you think its easy to raise good kids?

Who said I'm good?

But again, that would imply I can't be proud of my mom, because she's in no way my achievement, right? Well, that's bs. I can and will be proud of her.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Seriously, this is dumb. What's wrong with Black people being proud of their heritage? Nothing. And don't give me crap that white people can't be, as I see every white group in NYC having their own parade day. Germans, Swedes, Greeks, Irish...they all have parades.

...all of which are stupid and pointless. Imran knows what Im talking about.

The difference, however, is that Blacks in the U.S. were raped of their cultural and national identity by slavery. Ergo "Black" is the only thing they have for ethnicity.

Blacks who were brought to the US never had a national identity. They came from warring tribes, not nations. Do I hear violins?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Who said I'm good?

If your Mom is proud of you, you must be doing something right.

But again, that would imply I can't be proud of my mom, because she's in no way my achievement, right? Well, that's bs. I can and will be proud of her.

Sure you can be proud of your Mom, theres nothing wrong with being proud of the achievements of those close to you because in a way its a positive reflection on you. The problem I have is with people who are proud of themselves for being born a certain way.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Who says you can only be proud of your own achievements?

He never said your OWN achievements. He just mentioned achievements. I agree. What is the sense of being proud of something you were born into? Like being proud of being American? Why? You can be proud of what America has done, but proud to simply be American is kinda strange to me.

Exactly.
Its a lot easier to sit on your fat arse wave a flag and be proud than to actually work hard and contribute something of worth to america.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper Ah, yes. Because blacks, be they Americans or Somali, are indeed an ethnic group. How could we possibly forget?

Somalis are not part of the Black culture. Neither are Nigerians, nor Xhosa, nor any other African culture. Black culture is a unique American culture, a hybrid of various African cultures as well as Scottish, English, and (in Louisiana) French. West Indians in the US do not consider themselves Black, even if they are black.

Get it? Got it? Good.