Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[chequita guevara]

You know, most of those carpet baggers were teachers. The Klan opposed teaching freedmen who to read and write.

Modern white supremacy has its origins in the same place previous white supremacy did, economic insecurity. Rather than blaming a system which must have losers, they go after perceived competitors. If you can knock Black people out of competition for a job, then the likelihood that you will find a job increases.

Notice that by and large, most of this screaming has been about Affirmative Action, which, let's be honest, has done almost nothing to help Black people. The major beneficiary of AA, by far and away, has been white women. But blaming AA for their failure to get a job, because "some unqualified Black person was needed to fill a quota" acts as a salve for their feelings on the one hand, and directs attention away from the real causes of economic insecurity in the first place.

The New Black Panthers are indeed an insane group. That shouldn't be used to tar the Black Pride movement, however, any mor than the fact that a tiny minority of white pride people aren't racists should let anyone think it's anything other than a white supremacy movement.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Cali: you're a glutton for punishment. Everytime you go on some racist rant, your arguments get shot down in flames. When will you learn that your racist attitudes are wrong?

You dont really know my true attitude regarding race, besides, I like to see what you guys have to say.

I thought you were going to bed? Go on, admit it, I entertain you.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Having met quite a few of them, I would have to say no. By and large Black pride is a middle-class thing.

So to you black pride is more acceptable because its supported by those higher in the economic spectrum than the supporters of white pride? How capitalist of you.

[SpencerH]

CG, some interesting views.

You know, most of those carpet baggers were teachers. The Klan opposed teaching freedmen who to read and write.

Thats not all the carpetbaggers were though

Modern white supremacy has its origins in the same place previous white supremacy did, economic insecurity. Rather than blaming a system which must have losers, they go after perceived competitors. If you can knock Black people out of competition for a job, then the likelihood that you will find a job increases.

Just for my interest, have you ever lived in a socialized country?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Caligastia
So to you black pride is more acceptable because its supported by those higher in the economic spectrum than the supporters of white pride? How capitalist of you.

Now you're just flailing around.

[Caligastia]

Its what Im good at, dont knock it.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Thats not all the carpetbaggers were though

Hence most. The carpetbagger myth was blown up and distorted, but it's true there were a lot of opportunists who headed South to make money. Normally we'd call those people entrapreneurs.

Just for my interest, have you ever lived in a socialized country?

Nope, just the US, North, South, East and MidWest. I hope you aren't going to use that to make some kind of comment. It wouldn't be a valid comment, just a nasty swipe.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Italian-American societies are fine, Irish-American societies are fine, German-American societies are fine...but African-American? No, when it comes to African-American hyphenated terms are bad, that's when we're all supposed to just be American.

No... they aren't. I don't agree with Italian-American, Irish-American, German-American societies. Sure they have that right, but I disagree with that exclusion. See, I actually do agree in a melting-pot idea. I want everyone to associate with everyone. I don't want seperate groups for ethnic background, really.

In Rutgers (where I just finished) you really did have a lot of ethnic stratification. Blacks hung out with Blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, Oriental Asians with Oriental Asians, Sub-Continent Asians with Sub-Continental Asians, etc. In one of the most diverse universities in the country, I was hoping for more intermixing of races. There was some mixing of races, but still a lot of segregation, by either voluntary or sociological means.

[MrFun]

Oh no!! Cal found out the truth about me -- I'm a raging bigot!!



Yeah, it does not matter that I have straight friends.

It does not matter that I am friends with people who are moderate conservatives.

It does not matter that I have socialized with people of other races.

It does not matter that I respect religious people even though I am not religious.

You're right -- I'm a racist and a bigot.
troll rating: 0.01 out of 10


Cal, since colonial times, North America has always been multi-cultural and multi-ethnical.

[Stefu]

While the whole political correctness stuff is quite silly and often unnecessary and/or outirght insulting, one thing I haven't got are people who wonder why white pride is unacceptable but black pride is. It's all about what kind of people support the concept. One could have legitimate reasons to be proud of his/her whiteness or straightness. However, most people claiming white pride are racists to whom white pride means pride about beating up those who have black pride. And we can't really know about motives of someone claiming he supports white pride - we don't have a way to get inside his head. And someone supporting white pride must know he'll be associated with racists and still be willing to go on with proclaiming his white pride - and people who are willing to be associated with racists are, usually, racist themselves.

Look at it this way. You hear that Arabic couple who'se just moved next door is planning to name their baby 'Osama'. They might say they don't actually support OBL and that they just think Osama's a good name, they might say there have been many Osamas in their family tree and Osama's a traditional family name - but one still can't help but think that they're being quite, quite idiotic.

(And if your PC sensibilities threaten to lead you to complain about use of Arabs in my scenario, imagine they're whites planning to name their child 'Adolf' or 'Lolita'. Same thing, really.)

Of course, whether black pride or gay pride or similar organizations are *that* much better is a whole different can of soup, but just crying about black pride being accepted and white pride not being is inane.

Jews are white. Arabs are white. Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians are white. Fins are white. Norweigans are white. Danes are white.

I would argue that all of these groups have gone under oppression in the past.

That's true, man. Finns are constantly oppressed by people intentionally diminishing their status by misspelling their name.

Congress today is still disproportionately white.

This doesn't necessarily have to do that much with racism but with your voting methods. Imagine you have 10 districts with 51% voting Democrat and 49% Republican in each. Even though Democrats and Republicans get about as much votes, 10 Democrats and no Republicans are elected. Same thing with race - if we assume people voting across racial lines, then 10 51% white - 49% black districts will produce 10 white congressmen.

First-past-the-post skews the results. Solution: Proportional representation.

[Caligastia]

Why do people insist on rating posts?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Nope, just the US, North, South, East and MidWest. I hope you aren't going to use that to make some kind of comment. It wouldn't be a valid comment, just a nasty swipe.

No, I was just interested by this statement,

Rather than blaming a system which must have losers

I agree that its true, but I was wondering if you've lived in a country that trys to address that problem. I've lived in three so far (each for at least 8 years) and now I choose to live here. My experience has been that while capitalism has its problems with the poor, socialism becomes the "dictatorship of the mediocre". For me the American system that allows for upward and (unfortunately) downward movement is superior.

[MrFun]

Cal, because your trolls are no good.

[Caligastia]

People who are into Black Pride are just as stupid and hateful as those into White Pride. Its just plain stupid to be proud of something you were born with.

[Caligastia]

Theyre good enough to make you respond.