Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Caligastia
...all of which are stupid and pointless. Imran knows what Im talking about.

That is strictly a matter of opinion. I see absolutely no harm in them. And just because you have a buddy who will back you up doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can find someone who will support them on anything.

Blacks who were brought to the US never had a national identity. They came from warring tribes, not nations. Do I hear violins?

First, that's historically inaccurate and Eurocentric. Many slaves were stolen from major African kingdoms, such as Benin and Asante. Second, even those taken from "warring tribes" (oh, how condescending we are!) had their own distinct ethnic culture and lifestyle that was destroyed through slavery. Third, how would any of this preclude Blacks of today from associating themselves with each other through an ethnic status? Who are you to make that judgment?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Sure you can be proud of your Mom, theres nothing wrong with being proud of the achievements of those close to you because in a way its a positive reflection on you. The problem I have is with people who are proud of themselves for being born a certain way.

This is logically inconsistant. You are trying to rationalize a difference just so you can dengrate Black pride. Either you can have pride in your ancestors, and by extension, other groups of which you have been made a part or you cannot be proud of anything which is not your doing. Make a choice. Don't waffle about trying to have your cake and eat it too.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


This is logically inconsistant. You are trying to rationalize a difference just so you can dengrate Black pride. Either you can have pride in your ancestors, and by extension, other groups of which you have been made a part or you cannot be proud of anything which is not your doing. Make a choice. Don't waffle about trying to have your cake and eat it too.

I said "those who are close to you", not some far-off ancestor. If your associates achieve success then you have successfully chosen associates, and in the case of close family members, success is a reflection fo your own potential. I dont just denigrate Black pride, I denigrate White pride. You are the one who wants to have his cake (denigrate white pride) and eat it too (revere black pride).

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


That is strictly a matter of opinion. I see absolutely no harm in them. And just because you have a buddy who will back you up doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can find someone who will support them on anything.

Like I care whether anyone backs me up or not.

If your opinion is that its ok to be proud of something you were born with then can I assume you are a monarchist?

First, that's historically inaccurate and Eurocentric. Many slaves were stolen from major African kingdoms, such as Benin and Asante. Second, even those taken from "warring tribes" (oh, how condescending we are!) had their own distinct ethnic culture and lifestyle that was destroyed through slavery. Third, how would any of this preclude Blacks of today from associating themselves with each other through an ethnic status? Who are you to make that judgment?

Thank God their lifestyle was destroyed because most who were brought over were already enslaved by their own tribe or kingdom.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Caligastia



They have, but it didnt contribute to the building of this country.

Would you care to tell Motown how little money it made?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ethelred


Would you care to tell Motown how little money it made?

I stand corrected.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Carver


Indeed, blacks created the only art form created by America, Jazz.

Nonsense. Whats this "only" garbage? Ragtime preceeded Jazz. Blues as well I suspect.

Movies are an artform. Definitly created in America. The American Musical is an art form.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ethelred


Nonsense. Whats this "only" garbage? Ragtime preceeded Jazz. Blues as well I suspect.

Movies are an artform. Definitly created in America. The American Musical is an art form.

I tend to ignore the anti-american trolling.

[Guynemer]

Oh, the irony.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Blacks who were brought to the US never had a national identity. They came from warring tribes, not nations. Do I hear violins?

I think you are mistaking the sound your hip waders are making for that. There WERE African nations. Who do you think supplied the slaves for the slave trade. Sir Richard Burton was an ambassador to one.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ethelred


I think you are mistaking the sound your hip waders are making for that.

There WERE African nations. Who do you think supplied the slaves for the slave trade. Sir Richard Burton was an ambassador to one.

Sorry, my mistake.

[orange]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Somalis are not part of the Black culture. Neither are Nigerians, nor Xhosa, nor any other African culture. Black culture is a unique American culture, a hybrid of various African cultures as well as Scottish, English, and (in Louisiana) French. West Indians in the US do not consider themselves Black, even if they are black.

Get it? Got it? Good.

and I could say the same thing about white Americans.

Bunny - it's a damn shame that when someone who actually can speak from the point of view that this thread is about, they don't, and instead, claim that people like me are the cause of African Americans seeking unity amongst themselves.

The fact is, you don't know me, and you're passing judgement on me simply because I asked a question. Now, if you'd enlighten us with your views rather than smother this thread with your 'African Americans are being racially attacked and slandered' attitude, I'd be most happy to read your thoughts.

Elsewise, leave.

[Carver]

Caligastia, you are a fool who needs to shut up about African history because you obviously don't know a damn thing about the subject. Africans had no nations? Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Benin, Kanem-Borno were all nations along with myriad others. The founding of modern Ethiopia goes back to before the Roman Empire fell. There is a lot more to Africa than the stereotypical image of disorganized, warring "tribes" going about hunting and gathering. The trans-Saharan trade in salt and gold goes back more than 1000 years.

Why would an African nation of millions, such as the Yoruba, be called a "tribe", and small European states (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Estonia) be called nations. That is nothing more than a eurocentric perception on your part. The medeival nations of the Sahara (Ghana, Mali, Songhai) were certainly states. Ethiopia has been a state for more than 1000 years. And there are many more but I'm most familiar with west Africa.

Study some freakin history before trying to inculcate others with your racist crap. Oh, but I bet you think Africa has no history. Well it does. You are nothing but a white loser paranoid about "minorities" that he knows nothing about.

[orange]

Carver - can you at least admit that the state systems of western Africa were much less organized and more primitive than the European systems.

Lets be historically accurate, at least, when speaking about nations

[BunnyGrrl]

QUOTE] Originally posted by orange
and I could say the same thing about white Americans.

Bunny - it's a damn shame that when someone who actually can speak from the point of view that this thread is about, they don't, and instead, claim that people like me are the cause of African Americans seeking unity amongst themselves.

[/QUOTE]



Your initial question was answered, quite well i might add, on the first page of this thread. Many flame wars later, the subject became more about the legitmacy of black pride v. white pride.

When black pride is about killing and/or subjugating members of other races , i am a firm opponant. white pride is never about being glad that white people have such a great society and ONLY that. White pride is about white supremacy (which of course is still very alive and well).

Believe it or not, there are very many black people who consider white people not to be trusted. Many feel that given the chance, any white person would sell them up the river if push came to shove. Given that world view, it is not surprising that many black people would not choose to become friends with white people. You can not live in a world where most people still call black people morally and intellectually inferior and expect blacks to wholehartedly and with no reservations embrace every white person who approaches them without a noose. Most racism these days is subtle and harder to root out.

And if i sound a bit militant it is because i am. Having white friends (including and especially my bf) has made me see first hand the EXTREMELY different way this country treats blacks v. whites v. latinos v. asians...etc. It was only in another country did i feel entirely american and not black first. (and by black people's standards, i aint very black )