Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[TCO]

My point is more related to getting a better understanding of how to thoughtfully interpret historical writings. Rather than a call to specialize.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by BunnyGrrl
[Q] Originally posted by orange

There were reasons in the past for minorities to have groups to protect their rights under law or even to rally for equal rights, but in today's society everyone IS equal under law.

Tell that to all the black men on death row for crimes they have been PROVEN not to have committed. oh wait, some of them are already dead. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/smith/

Theres no doubt that a disproportionate number of blacks are on death row. Some of them are there because of police corruption and weaknesses in the legal system. In your example, however, the man was released when it was PROVEN that he was innocent. Isnt that an example of equality under the law? What you're really citing is unequal application of existing laws.

I don't know you personally, so i can't tell you why specific people don't like you. But i can tell you why i tire of the "i've never owned a slave" arguement. No one in this country has owned a slave for 140 years, that has not ended racism against blacks. The men who killed emmit till hadn't owned any slaves either. for that matter, neither had those men in jasper, texas who dragged james byrd to death

.

Inflammatory statements dont help your argument. I'm damn sure we can all cite examples of black against white atrocities too.

When in the company of whites, blacks are very aware that we must set a good example lest our whole race be judged. This is tiring. Being among other blacks can sometimes be a comfort. Not being allowed to show human weakness is very annoying.

This is an interesting viewpoint that I've never heard before. My personal experience is that blacks in the south are pretty much like everybody else, some are good and some are bad. I'd hate to think what those that seem like complete a$$holes would be like if not on their best behaviour.

Being followed and accused a thief when i try to buy milk is tiring. Buying groceries is something you can do everyday and take it for granted. when i go into a store, it can become a political exercise.

As a personal aside, i was awarded a scholarship and various need based grants from the school i chose to go to, we were allowed to use our financial aid to pay for purchases in the campus bookstore, but they didn't sell art supplies. when i was asked by my art teacher why i didn't have all of my supplies, i told him i couldn't afford to buy them all at once and asked him why they couldn't be made available in the campus bookstore where i could buy them w/my voucher. He asked me if i was in school on an athletic scholarship. I told him no--art.

Without being to pompous about it, these are the kinds of attitudes that few whites in america have ever faced, and its why they dont understand the resulting responses that develop in blacks when dealing with whites.

[Carver]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Thank God their lifestyle was destroyed because most who were brought over were already enslaved by their own tribe or kingdom.

No, most Africans were never slaves. And there was virtually no chattel slavery in sub-Saharan Africa. People didn't own other people. There were cases of captured soldiers forced to labour for another kingdom for a period of time, but the "slaves" were not marked as inferior beings to be "owned" in perpituity.

Ignorance is obviously bliss foy you, Caligastia.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GP
My point is more related to getting a better understanding of how to thoughtfully interpret historical writings. Rather than a call to specialize.

Unfortunately, critical thinking does not appear to a part of many schools curriculum. Good grades are a matter of regurgitating the pap that they are fed.

This is not aimed at you in any way MF

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Unfortunately, critical thinking does not appear to a part of many schools curriculum. Good grades are a matter of regurgitating the pap that they are fed.

This is not aimed at you in any way MF

Oh goody -- someone who has NOT trolled me!
At first, I thought Cal or SuperSneak were trying to organize an Apolyton lynch mob after me.



But seriously -- when I read other books in my area of interest -- particularly history, I am intelligent enough to see what bias slant the author has, and what really interesting, or good points/insights an author has provided in other instances.

[SpencerH]

Its not always easy to know the perspective of the author though. Sometimes its worthwhile to read what you might consider "trash" but where you do know the viewpoint.

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Theres no doubt that a disproportionate number of blacks are on death row. Some of them are there because of police corruption and weaknesses in the legal system. In your example, however, the man was released when it was PROVEN that he was innocent.

He wasn't released; he died in prison. I cite to illustrate that we are not all equal even under the law.

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by GP
Bunny, you can't hold the Jasper killing against Orange because he is white. That would be like me being anti-black because I was carjacked by a black guy.

Its not like we're all on football teams and the whites are all against the blacks and vice versa.

I'm not holding it against him. In some ways, I'm trying to explain a viewpoint which i personnally don't have, but which has been expressed to me (ie. blacks not wanting friendships w/whites)

Some of my examples are extreme because it is hard to articulate neatly what the compounded pressure of facing racism daily does to the spirit.

[TCO]

good answer...

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by orange


Well, I would disagree there as well.

I can see the distinction between blacks and asians as minorities, as asians do better in school, have higher University attendance rates, and are economically better off than African Americans(statistically speaking, of course)

But hispanics are on par, or possibly even lower, in these figures than African Americans.

Umm, i'm not sure are you saying you disagree with my experiences or my analysis of said experience?

[SpencerH]

Double post

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by BunnyGrrl

He wasn't released; he died in prison. I cite to illustrate that we are not all equal even under the law.

Sorry, I didnt read far enough on that page.

While a tragedy, I still count this as a miscarriage of justice caused by police corruption and poor advocacy rather than an indictment of the system as a whole. It may be inferred that the individuals involved were biased, but thats not the same as the system as a whole.

[Carver]

Originally posted by SpencerH

It may be inferred that the individuals involved were biased, but thats not the same as the system as a whole.

IF you want to judge the U.S. justice system look at the man at the top, William Rhenquist, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He argued for continued segregation when he was a clerk at the Supreme Court during Brown vs. Board of Ed. He has said that he agreed with the Plessy vs. Ferguson decision (saying segregation should be legal). He has owned two properties with racially restrictive covenants in their titles. He also passes (fails) the Jesse Helms test, as Helms said that he was "delighted" that Rhenquist was going to be the Chief Justice. Why would any black man trust Rhenquist and his minions?

[orange]

Originally posted by Carver


Yes, let's. To say Africa had no nations is completely and absolutely historically inaccurate.

Read some history before trying to be "historically accurate".

I never said that, jackass. Go reread my post...I'm sick of wasting my time with PC wankers like you who jump to conclusions and don't actually respond to points made.

[orange]

Originally posted by BunnyGrrl
I said i was. MX was/is not the only black political leader. MLK spoke of black pride, jjackson speaks of black pride, dubois, etc.

No. You didn't understand...

I'm saying if a new group came out that was about 'white pride' and WASN'T racist and WASN'T founded by white supremacists or former KKK members and worked with other groups to promote equality, would you still be against them?

Tell that to all the black men on death row for crimes they have been PROVEN not to have committed. oh wait, some of them are already dead. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/smith/

How about Roy Criner. Join a group to take away the death penalty, not a black pride group...you'll do more good to change this problem which affects MORE THAN JUST BLACKS!

I spent my college days learning to be a commie; i did not belong to the black student union...i did however have the luck of taking classes w/a wonderful professor who is friends w/angela davis and bell hooks. we read lot of their work and the work of the brothers from havard cornell west (formerly) and henry louis gates jr.

Well then I'll have to find out some other way. I'll look around for some good black student union university websites.

I don't know you personally, so i can't tell you why specific people don't like you.

I'm NOT saying they don't like "me" I'm saying African Americans are MORE likely to keep their close friendships 'black' and not make close friendships with whites. Then you tell me that it's all about how blacks don't trust whites. Don't turn this on me, I get along fine with many African Americans. I'm only trying to figure out why African Americans seem to segregate themselves in society. This is not about me.

But i can tell you why i tire of the "i've never owned a slave" arguement. No one in this country has owned a slave for 140 years, that has not ended racism against blacks.

Real simple - I am not racist. Not against blacks, not against hispanics, not against anyone. So for you to say "most African Americans don't trust whites" means that THEY are being racist against me, or at very least prejudice, because they don't know me yet they already feel they can't trust me. THAT IS WRONG.

The men who killed emmit till hadn't owned any slaves either. for that matter, neither had those men in jasper, texas who dragged james byrd to death.

As stated, you can't blame me or any other white for this simply because they're white. People are people. I liked GPs (or maybe someone else, I forget) example of how he can't have a prejudice against blacks simply if he was car jacked by an African American.

Racism is not a subject in history class that is dead to modern society like the roman empire. Ending segreagation was not about wanting to be friends or live among whites; it was about be able to have the choice to do so; it was mostly about our actual living situation improving. That has only happened a tiny bit. For many stuck in the loop of poverty, that has not happened at all.

I understand this, quite well, but it does NOT justify African Americans being racist or prejudiced against whites NOR does it justify Affirmative Action. Everyone is equal under the written law.

When in the company of whites, blacks are very aware that we must set a good example lest our whole race be judged. This is tiring. Being among other blacks can sometimes be a comfort. Not being allowed to show human weakness is very annoying.

They should be themselves. I don't judge races by one person or even a few. People are people, i judge them on an individual basis. And what you said implies that most blacks are normally inferior to whites, which is why they must put on an 'act' to make themselves seem better than they are.

Being followed and accused a thief when i try to buy milk is tiring. Buying groceries is something you can do everyday and take it for granted. when i go into a store, it can become a political exercise.

Who accuses you of being a thief?

Being lumped into a category of racisct killers may suck for you, but it sucks way worse being in the category of the potential victim.

But I am not the one doing the racial profiling...so I should not be grouped in with those that do. Same thing the other way around.

As a personal aside, i was awarded a scholarship and various need based grants from the school i chose to go to, we were allowed to use our financial aid to pay for purchases in the campus bookstore, but they didn't sell art supplies. when i was asked by my art teacher why i didn't have all of my supplies, i told him i couldn't afford to buy them all at once and asked him why they couldn't be made available in the campus bookstore where i could buy them w/my voucher. He asked me if i was in school on an athletic scholarship. I told him no--art.

So?