Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by orange


Under the law there IS genuine racial equality! What some 'black' organizations feel is equality some others may feel as unfair...so if a 'white' organization arises to try to look after its own interests, it should not be deemed racist only because it is a 'white' organization so long as 'black' organizations exist.

Chegitz already explained that one such white advocacy organization, the NAAWP, was founded by racists.
So I'm hoping you're not necessarily referring to the NAAWP.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper


You know, the world is full of deluded nutcases, and their ardent proponents, always suggesting one should read more about their particular hero to realize how brilliant they really were. I've heard the abouve from black-rasism proponents, commies, nazis, various religeous cultists, randites and countless other losers who feel their clearly deranged beliefs merit further scrutiny. They don't, at least not unless you pay me for the time and effort.

As for MX, I know he stated repeatedly that whites where devils and that he never bother to retract those nuggets of brilliant insight. 'Nuff said. I'll read up on MX when you promise to read up on Torquemada, who held to the belief that "fags are turds" and didn't bother changing his tune either.

And I'm sure we'll both find lots of mitigating circumstances if we put our minds to it. This, however, does not in the slightest affect how I feel judgement should be passed on those who spout various racist and anti-democratic creeds here and now, happily claiming these public hatemongers as sources of inspiration.

And again, this just shows what a close-minded idiot you're being about it. I have read books about the nefarious people of history, like Hitler, Stalin, etc. Understanding them means reading about them. You don't understand MX, you're making assumptions out of your posterior about who he was and what he said. You then start ranting about how it doesn't behoove you to learn anything about them. What a crock of horse****.

Reading a bio on X isn't going to brainwash you...are you afraid your mind is too weak to withstand such a thing? I even read Mein Kampf, and it certainly didn't in any way make me kinder towards Hitler. But it did give me a little insight into who he was and why he did what he did.

If you want to condemn X, fine, but do it out of what you know rather than what you don't know. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure ain't smart.

[Carver]

Originally posted by orange
i'd challenge you to prove that the majority of central/west African societies were under 'independent' governments during the period of 1600-1700, and not simply under a 'might makes right' dictatorial cycle.

The definition I posted of nation lists several characteristics of a nation. Not all those characteristics are necessarily needed to have a nation. For example, the Palestinaians are a nation, yet they do not have an independent government. Even during colonialism, Afirca had nations: the Yoruba nation, the Kikuyu nation, the Fon nation, the Tswana nation. Of course, none of these had independent governments at the time but they were still nations because the people identified themselves as such.

A nation is not defined by institutions, it is defined by the spirit of the people. You could certainly have a nation that operates under a 'might makes right' dictatorial cycle. South Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Pakistan have all had governments whose authority was derived from might.

I see your post as an addition to the posts I have made, not really a challenge to them.

[Carver]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Just for informations sake, the show "Goodtimes" was about a working class african-american family.

And was a damn good show...one of the best.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
MX is a perfect exemple. The man was a racist. Treat him as such.

You don't know a damn thing about Malcom X. You're just relying on heresay, rather than reading anything the man said, wrote or did.

Regardless, it's not your place to decide to hold up equality for Black people because you disagree with some fringe leaders.

[MrFun]

I do not like how some people use the extremists within black society, and then try to apply their ideology to mainstream black society, to justify that organizations such as the NAACP have no legitimate purpose.

Shows their extreme presumptions, not to mention ignorance.

[moomin]

If they are indeed extremists, the where is the mainstream to disown them?

Among those trying to justify racial separation and AA? I think not.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by orange
Under the law there IS genuine racial equality!

It's true, under the law, there is genuine racial equality. However, the law is applied unequally. Blacks are far more likely to go to jail for the same crime and more likely to face stiffer penalties for the same crime. It is well known that a Black person who murders a white person is far more likely to get the death penalty than a white person who murders a Black person. Being stopped by the police for BS is so common that there are nicknames for it, DWB, driving while Black. In Florida, a law ostensibly created to weed out ineligible voters (dead people, people who've moved, felons) was applied in such a way is to disproportionately impact Black people. Despite Black people constituting 46 percent of felons (which goes back to differences in being changed and punishment), more than 50 percent of those knocked off the rolls were Black. Equality under the law is meaningless if it isn't praciticed.

What some 'black' organizations feel is equality some others may feel as unfair...so if a 'white' organization arises to try to look after its own interests, it should not be deemed racist only because it is a 'white' organization so long as 'black' organizations exist.

When you show me a "white pride" group that isn't a cover for a white supremacy group, then your can claim there is unequal treatment. In theory, yes, white pride should be no more inoquous than Black pride. The reality is that it was started by white supremacists and is overwhelmingly only espoused
by white supremacists. I really have to wonder why you keep pushing this point, over and over, despite reality proving that you don't know what you're talking about.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
If they are indeed extremists, the where is the mainstream to disown them?

This shows that you don't know squat about mainstream Black leadership. Anyone who has paid the least bit of attention knows that mainstream Black leaders have disavowed people like Farrakhan. During the 60s, the mainstream disavowed MLK, BTW. Those who've done the most to advance Civil Rights have always been considered extremists. Lots of folks try to claim today how great MLK was regarded, but spending a day in a library in the microfishe reading The New York Times and [/i]The Chicago Tribune[/i] will quickly disabuse you of the idea that whites liked him.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
If they are indeed extremists, the where is the mainstream to disown them?

Among those trying to justify racial separation and AA? I think not.

Apolytoners, this is one example of ignorance that I speak of.

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by orange
I'm not necessarily against the NAACP or any other group, I just resent the implication that black pride is pride and white pride is racism. It's a double standard and it's unfair.

Fine, be proud of being white, what's not to be proud of; white poeple control the world...

Maybe someday there will be a campus organization that forms to bridge the divide between ethnic white groups and choose to celebrate their shared "whiteness" or something. but that is not the case today. "white pride" groups as they stand TODAY are based on white supremacy, however.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by MrFun
I do not like how some people use the extremists within black society, and then try to apply their ideology to mainstream black society, to justify that organizations such as the NAACP have no legitimate purpose.

Shows their extreme presumptions, not to mention ignorance.

Yea, some jerk (I can't remember who) keeps bringing up the NAAWP in order to dodge the question of whether all people have a right to have ethnic pride / advocacy organizations, or only non-whites.

[BunnyGrrl]

orange don't tell me you are the friend of blacks, and then in the same damn breath, disregard our ****ing personal experiences. Who the hell wants to be bothered with that all the time? Why the hell wouldn't someone want to surround themselves with people who celebrate their humanity rather than degrade it?

And what's up with this Saudi television example? Are blacks somehow not a part of american society? i know you were using it to make a point, but it was a weird example to use. why not use canada or the uk or something?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sikander


Yea, some jerk (I can't remember who) keeps bringing up the NAAWP in order to dodge the question of whether all people have a right to have ethnic pride / advocacy organizations, or only non-whites.

Sikander, you have to include slander in all of your posts, don't you??

The NAAWP was founded by racists.

Can you name a white pride or white advocacy group that was not founded by white supremacists??

[Sikander]

Originally posted by MrFun


Sikander, you have to include slander in all of your posts, don't you??

The NAAWP was founded by racists.

Can you name a white pride or white advocacy group that was not founded by white supremacists??

I don't recall any, though whether or not I can has no impact on any points I have laid out here. I said in an earlier post on this thread that I thought all of these racial pride and advocacy groups were based upon the weaknesses of their membership. I wish they would all go away. Can you agree that "white people" have the same rights to associate under the constitution that any other group have? I think we can both agree that neither of us has any interest in joining such a group.