Unspoken black/white segregation: Choice or societal structure?

[orange]

Ethelred - if that's so, why do they need to call it a "black student union" to do so If not, then I wonder what they would discuss...and I still don't think they need a "black student union" to do it.

[orange]

Hell, they could ****ing call it a "Diversity club" or something like that, and do the EXACT SAME THINGS (assuming a black student union aims to promote diversity, which is what I gather...) without making it seem like 'black only'

I'd join a diversity club, I would be much less likely to join a "Black student Union" because I'd feel automatically outcast from the start! As would any other non-African-American!

[Ethelred]

I was only saying what is a likely topic of discussion.

Other topics are likely as well. It depends on how political the group is.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SnowFire
MrFun: You walk a dangerous road. Most people agree that denigrating one arbitrarily formed group is somethingism and bad. But isn't raising one arbitrarily formed group up the same thing, and imply that the other groups are worse (the "pride" movements?)? I myself have no problem with gay equality, although gay pride implies that there's something special, different, and great about being gay- when I thought half the point of some of the early crusaders was "we're just the same as everybody else."

What obstacles have white men overcome due to discrimination because of their race in the last 500 years??
NONE

What obstacles have heterosexuals overcome due to discrimination because of their sexual orientation??
NONE

So, my question is this -- what do white men have reasons to celebrate their identity? What do heterosexuals have reasons to celebrate their identity?

This is where I do not understand white pride or straight pride. To me, it just seems that these were started out of spiteful mockery of acknowledgement of black culture, and affirmation of gay identity. That all it seems to me --- spiteful mockery of the legitimate groups, communities, and organizations for MINORITY groups.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by MrFun
What obstacles have white men overcome due to discrimination because of their race in the last 500 years??
NONE

Not into sports are you?

White men can't jump.

White men can't sprint.

I had a coach tell me that blacks were faster because they had a longer leg muscle. At the same time that an Italian had the 200 meter sprint record and shortly after a Russian won the Olympic Gold in the 100 meters.

Well you asked.

What obstacles have heterosexuals overcome due to discrimination because of their sexual orientation??
NONE

Nerves.

So, my question is this -- what do white men have reasons to celebrate their identity? What do heterosexuals have reasons to celebrate their identity?

Mostly because they are feeling put upon but thats only for the non-racists. Last I saw white pride is mostly just another way to say Nazi.

Still white men really can jump and sprint but the American coaches have racist thinking clogging up their minds.

This is where I do not understand white pride or straight pride. To me, it just seems that these were started out of spiteful mockery of acknowledgement of black culture, and affirmation of gay identity. That all it seems to me --- spiteful mockery of the legitimate groups, communities, and organizations for MINORITY groups.

People feel left out. That you should understand.

Not that I understand white pride organizations. We can always join the Masons or if you are Catholic the Knights of Columbus which my dad belonged too.

I never a saw a black Mason. Does anyone know if that has changed?

[DinoDoc]

I've never understood something about these various "pride" movements, ex. black, gay, ect. How does one go about being proud of something that they have/claim to have no control over? That seems more than a bit narcissistic to me.

[Dis]

I'm sorry, but white men can't jump

[orange]

Originally posted by MrFun
What obstacles have white men overcome due to discrimination because of their race in the last 500 years??
NONE

Jews are white. Arabs are white. Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians are white. Fins are white. Norweigans are white. Danes are white.

I would argue that all of these groups have gone under oppression in the past. So, it's ok to have Jewish pride, but not white pride. Well then, shall we say that it's ok to have Nigerian pride, but not black pride? How about a Malian student union, or a cameroonian sorority.

You're absolutely off your nut. You think that the only people that can be oppressed are American minorities, and that's a load of bull****. Every race has gone through hardships, some worse than others, but that does NOT justify having some pride good and some pride bad. If Africans can be proud of their heritage, than so can I damnit. No one choses who they are or where their ancestors came from, but if you're going to set a standard for one that standard better apply on a universal scale.

What obstacles have heterosexuals overcome due to discrimination because of their sexual orientation??
NONE

You don't know that for a fact. I'm sure there are cases of a heterosexual being shunned from being friends with a homosexual by other homosexuals. Just because it's not something you hear about doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And I STILL don't see why you can be proud of something you supposedly don't have any control over anyway. And if you think for one second that Homosexuals have gone through major oppression, comprable to African Americans, you're severely mistaken.

So, my question is this -- what do white men have reasons to celebrate their identity? What do heterosexuals have reasons to celebrate their identity?

Hey pal, I'm proud of my parents and who they are, I'm proud of my grandparents and who they are, and I'm damn proud of what they've had to go through. Was it because they're white - no. But that doesn't mean i can't have pride in my heritage. Just because it's the norm doesn't make it any less worthy of pride.

I'm sure there are plenty of black families that have been well off for a good long time, generations upon generations, and they have every right to celebrate pride in their heritage if they want too. But according to you, only those that have met the mark of suffering in your eyes deserve to be proud.

This is where I do not understand white pride or straight pride. To me, it just seems that these were started out of spiteful mockery of acknowledgement of black culture, and affirmation of gay identity. That all it seems to me --- spiteful mockery of the legitimate groups, communities, and organizations for MINORITY groups.

So white pride in south Africa is ok then right? And black pride should be condemed...right?

No one's mocking anything. What I'm specifically saying is that segregating yourselves into groups which BY NAME signify that only a certain 'race' or even 'sexuality' of people should join only does THEIR race or sexuality harm, and destroys the bridges that THEIR ANCESTORS have built to connect the dots between aspects of society that were once separate.

If they want Black Student Unions, then we should not be surprised to find campuses where blacks hang out with blacks and whites hang out with whites.

[orange]

If they want Black Student Unions, then we should not be surprised to find campuses where blacks hang out with blacks and whites hang out with whites.

And no, i DON'T see this as a positive thing

[Dis]

There are those who believe that a race war is inevitable. And it wouldn't be pleasant if you had to attack your friends. While I don't see this likely to happen, I can see a reoccurance of the Rodney King verdict situation we had in 1994 (or was it 1992?).

But the simple fact is a majority of blacks have a different culture than a majority of whites. I say majority because there is significant blending, especially recently. This is a good thing.

Blend away

[MrFun]

Celebrations of various white cultures is legitimate -- festivals that celebrate German heritage, for instance.

An advocacy organization for whites, such as the NAAWP is not legitimate.

By all means, white Americans should definitely be proud of their cultural heritage.

But advocacy groups for whites??

And I never said that suppression of homosexuals was/is on the par that blacks have suffered.
Yet to this day, homosexuals are still suppressed -- but in the face of increasing social acceptance.

One more thing -- heterosexuals already celebrate their identity in a legitimate way -- legal, and social recognition of their marriages and relationships as being legitimate.

[orange]

Originally posted by Dissident
There are those who believe that a race war is inevitable. And it wouldn't be pleasant if you had to attack your friends. While I don't see this likely to happen, I can see a reoccurance of the Rodney King verdict situation we had in 1994 (or was it 1992?).

But the simple fact is a majority of blacks have a different culture than a majority of whites. I say majority because there is significant blending, especially recently. This is a good thing.

Blend away

I also notice that african americans seem 'forced' to fit into one of society's preconceived black steriotypes...

A) you're an athlete (most notably Basketball, but football as well)
B) you sell drugs and hang out in gangs
C) you go into the military

though occasionally you get a "prove yourself" black who goes through school with 4.0s, graduates top of his class, is involved in everything, gets into a big time university, flawless all the way through, etc. etc.

I mean yeah that's a good thing, all motivation is good motivation...but there always seems to be the lingering idea that they're doing it only to prove that steriotypes don't apply to them.

[MrFun]

Orange, I have moderated/clarified my opinion on this topic with my last post -- hope you saw it.

[orange]

Originally posted by MrFun
Celebrations of various white cultures is legitimate -- festivals that celebrate German heritage, for instance.

An advocacy organization for whites, such as the NAAWP is not legitimate.

but an advocacy group for blacks is legitimate because...why? Blacks have equal rights as Whites...

and what if the NAAWP or similar org. is against Affirmative Action and sees it as racist against whites? I know I do. And I don't feel I'm a racist for thinking that way.

Quite honestly I think both organizations are pointless, but I'd rather have both be legitimate than one be legitimate and one be illegitimate.

By all means, white Americans should definitely be proud of their cultural heritage.

Apparently not. It's ok to be proud that you're black, but not ok to be proud that you're white.

But advocacy groups for whites??

Affirmative Action

And I never said that suppression of homosexuals was/is on the par that blacks have suffered.
Yet to this day, homosexuals are still suppressed -- but in the face of increasing social acceptance.

One more thing -- heterosexuals already celebrate their identity in a legitimate way -- legal, and social recognition of their marriages and relationships as being legitimate.

no, we don't "celebrate" our identity. That's part of life. It's not a celebration of our sexuality. It's something people do. I agree that any two humans that want to get married should be able to, by law...and if a group's goals were to lobby/protest/etc. for that to happen I'd be all for it, but not if they called themselves "Union of Gay/Lesbian Americans" or something to that tone.

[MrFun]

You missed the point with marriage -- homosexuals have yet to gain widespread, legal recognition of their unions, along with social acceptance of their relationships.

These are things that heterosexuals have always had.