Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn has just been shot

[Hueij]

A terrible day for democracy and The Netherlands.

Sorry, just got home so I didn't read thru the whole thread. This quote from Monk is just all there is to say about it all. I loathed everything Fortuyn stood for but... I am really lost here, this **** just doesn't belong here. You don't kill because of political differences...

On a side note, I'm so glad the alleged killer is white... I don't even want to contemplate about the **** that would happen if he was a Muslim...

[Hueij]

Originally posted by faded glory
Hey what the hell? He is gay? You call him right wing?


Wow!

let me say that again.

Wow!

You really have no clue, don't you. This is not America...

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Ned


What is he opera about so that we can understand the issue better?

Ned

I haven't seen it

Here's a quotation in English that I found on the WWW:

...an opera entitled Aisha and the Women of Medina, after Assia Djebar's novel Loin de Médine, scheduled as one of the 'intercultural' performances that would offer a special flavour to Rotterdam as this year's cultural capital of Europe. The Moroccan artists had withdrawn under the pressure of certain Muslim circles that considered this play, staged around one of Prophet Muhammad's wives, unacceptable. One of the local Muslim leaders who, in a subsequent public debate, opposed the performance was Khalil El Moumni, the Moroccan imam of the Al Nasr mosque in Rotterdam.

This is from the Washington Post, Dec 11, 2000.

The Dutch directors of a musical about one of the wives of Islam's Prophet Muhammad are baffled by threats that led the entire Muslim cast to walk out and cancel the show.

Rehearsals had been scheduled to begin last week for ''Aisha and the Women of Medina,'' the highlight of next year's European Cultural Capital festival in Rotterdam.

But the eight Arabic-speaking singers, actors and a composer from Morocco abruptly withdrew late last month, Gerda Roest of the Onafhankelijk Toneel production company said Monday.

'We still don't know exactly what happened,'' she said. ''All we know is that a fax was sent from unknown persons in Rotterdam to a newspaper and the prime minister in Morocco ... which warned the cast: 'If you do this you'll have the same fate as Salman Rushdie.'''

Dutch media suggested the fax came from a local Muslim group. Roest declined to speculate on its source.

In withdrawing, cast members sent their own fax to the show's director, Gerrit Timmers, which ended with the words: ''Fear reigns over here.''

Islam forbids fictional or artistic representations of its 7th century prophet, his family or disciples. Dozens of literary works deemed blasphemous have been banned in Muslim countries because they depict figures in the Quran, the Muslim holy book.

You may have noticed that the novel on which the opera is based was written by an Arab woman.

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[Mercator]

On a side note, I'm so glad the alleged killer is white...

Me too, actually... But whatever he is, whichever political or religious views he has, I think the "group" which "matches" most will not be liked very much, to say the least. Even though they don't have anything to do with him.

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Mercator
I premuse you mean Aida, Oldenbarnevelt?

Premuse away, Mercator.

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[Mercator]

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt


Some information for non-Dutch readers.
In the interview, Fortuyn declared that he wanted to do away with the "ridiculous" article 1 of the Dutch constitution, the so-called anti-discrimination article. His political opponents Melkert and De Graaf (and to a lesser extent Rosenmöller) seized the opportunity to make it seem as if Fortuyn wanted to make light of racial and other discrimination. However, his point was that articles 1 and 7 (about the freedom of religion) were mutually contradictory: the right to make derogatory remarks about homosexuals was defended by some Muslims and Christians referring to article 7. Fortuyn rightly didn't have much respect for an anti-discrimination article which could easily be evaded in the case of discrimination of homosexuals by religious bigots.
Article 1 is very new, it was introduced in our constitution as late as 1984 or so. It is, of course, not part of our criminal code. If article 1 was cancelled it would only be missed as a symbol; in practice, charges of racial or other discrimination are dealt with in our penal laws.
Now, the same Melkert and De Graaf said they are in favour of postponing the elections. Why doesn't that surprise me?

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Wrong... Article one is the most precious one of our Constitution, and Fortuyn didn't question that one for nothing. Nothing but good about the dead but he had some questionable opinions about other religions...

And that's all he had, opinions. In all these months I haven't heard one single solution..

[Dr Strangelove]

Whatever you Dutch do now, guard the suspect's life closely. Don't let any penny ante bar owning hoods packing heat near him. If a political suicide is a major trauma to a nation's psyche, imagine having the perpetrator die before the reason for his heinous act becomes known

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Whatever you Dutch do now, guard the suspect's life closely. Don't let any penny ante bar owning hoods packing heat near him. If a political suicide is a major trauma to a nation's psyche, imagine having the perpetrator die before the reason for his heinous act becomes known

Good warning! Here, in Dutchbat country, we are naive enough to let that happen.

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[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Hueij

Wrong... Article one is the most precious one of our Constitution,

Very strange for an article that was inserted as late as 1984.

and Fortuyn didn't question that one for nothing.

For some reason you choose not to respond to my explanation of what really happened. Every decent person in the Netherlands was embarrassed about the way Fortuyn's seat-hungry opponents attacked him like bloodhounds after the interview, deliberately taking his words out of context. I'll never again vote D66 after De Graaf saw fit to bring Anne Frank into the discussion.

Nothing but good about the dead but he had some questionable opinions about other religions...

OTHER? Hahaha, talking about Eurocentrism... I for one don't consider Christianity to be the default religion.

And that's all he had, opinions. In all these months I haven't heard one single solution..

That may be true. I wasn't going to vote for him either.

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[Ned]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt


I haven't seen it

Here's a quotation in English that I found on the WWW:



This is from the Washington Post, Dec 11, 2000.



You may have noticed that the novel on which the opera is based was written by an Arab woman.

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These are not mere complaints, they are death threats. I hope the Dutch police followed up.

Ned

[Provost Harrison]

Woah, that is quite serious. He was only interviewed on the BBC yesterday, I didn't think he'd be bumped off like this. Sheesh.

[Stefu]

King, Kennedy (two), Reagan (attempt), Wallace.... That's 5 in the last century. Do you know of any others in the last 100 years?

Huey Long. Malcolm X. McKinley. Theodore Roosevelt (attempt.) Franklin Roosevelt (attempt.) Gerald Ford (attempt.)

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt


Good warning! Here, in Dutchbat country, we are naive enough to let that happen.

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Well, it's not like Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't surrounded by the entire Dallas police force when Jack Ruby shot him, they just didn't expect it from someone they knew.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Huey Long. Malcolm X. McKinley. Theodore Roosevelt (attempt.) Franklin Roosevelt (attempt.) Gerald Ford (attempt.)

Ok, Huey... Malcolm was shot? McKinley is over 100 years. Roosevelt, ok.

FDR and Ford?!