Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn has just been shot

[Tom201]

So you really want to vote for Fortuyn Party, just because he is dead?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
my new avatar, until after the elections. thanks Mercator.

I second that

[Mercator]

So you really want to vote for Fortuyn Party, just because he is dead?

I might have considered it really... But then, I can't vote anyway, so I don't have to worry about it.

[Ecthy]

it might all be made up by them just in order to increase votes for them

I don't see how those guys can vote for a right-winger party. And a xenophobe one as such, what a shame.

[Buck Birdseed]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt
This would imply that Castro, Mugabe, and generally most Third World socialists and communists (and many in the Western world) are right-wing.

I would consider this to be the case, yes. Almost every succesful "communist" regime has been right-wing on every issue except working class power, and even there most cases are highly suspect.

The Netherlands is not your country with some minor differences -- it's a country with a history of its own, similar to your country in some respects, very different in others.

I refuse to accept that politics is not something universial. "Oooh, we're a country of our own, multi-culturalism is alien to us!" sounds supspiciously like the kind of argument Mugabe would use to punish adulterers or America to hang people.

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Mercator
(...) he made some questionable statements in a newspaper interview, was thrown out of his party and created his own.

Some information for non-Dutch readers.
In the interview, Fortuyn declared that he wanted to do away with the "ridiculous" article 1 of the Dutch constitution, the so-called anti-discrimination article. His political opponents Melkert and De Graaf (and to a lesser extent Rosenmöller) seized the opportunity to make it seem as if Fortuyn wanted to make light of racial and other discrimination. However, his point was that articles 1 and 7 (about the freedom of religion) were mutually contradictory: the right to make derogatory remarks about homosexuals was defended by some Muslims and Christians referring to article 7. Fortuyn rightly didn't have much respect for an anti-discrimination article which could easily be evaded in the case of discrimination of homosexuals by religious bigots.
Article 1 is very new, it was introduced in our constitution as late as 1984 or so. It is, of course, not part of our criminal code. If article 1 was cancelled it would only be missed as a symbol; in practice, charges of racial or other discrimination are dealt with in our penal laws.
Now, the same Melkert and De Graaf said they are in favour of postponing the elections. Why doesn't that surprise me?

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[Mercator]

my new avatar, until after the elections. thanks Mercator.

I don't think I've ever felt so Dutch before...

I don't see how those guys can vote for a right-winger party. And a xenophobe one as such, what a shame.

He's not quite a xenophobe. He wants to close borders, yes, but mostly to give our country the opportunity with the problems that the current immigrants are given us now. Not necessarily crime, but just the general issues immigrants bring about.
This by the way, was his view on more issues. He also wanted to halt the amount of money going to health care, first reorganise it, then see about how to improve it more.
Additionally, he recently said he wanted to "pardon" immigrants, that is, accept those that have been in Holland for a long time, while still not being accepted according to immigrational procedures... Maybe just a populistic statement to get votes, but at least he stood for it, and far beyond anything the Liberals and Christian Democrats had in mind.

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Snapcase
I refuse to accept that politics is not something universial. "Oooh, we're a country of our own, multi-culturalism is alien to us!" sounds supspiciously like the kind of argument Mugabe would use to punish adulterers or America to hang people.

I am not very fond of the debating trick of asking one's opponent to define their terms all the time, but in this case I would really like to know what you mean by "multi-culturalism". I have no problem with multi-ethnicity. If by multi-culturalism you simply mean multi-ethnicity, you'd better use the correct word. However, if you mean that because of mass immigration of Muslims, my country should compromise on matters like democracy, secularism, freedom of speech, equality of men and women, I simply don't agree.

The opera Aisha, to be staged in our largest cities, was cancelled because of objections and threats by Muslims. I think that's a bloody shame.

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[David Floyd]

I'm a little late, but it's time for me to contribute my usual smart-ass troll:

Gee, I guess Holland needs gun control, huh?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt


The opera Aisha, to be staged in our largest cities, was cancelled because of objections and threats by Muslims. I think that's a bloody shame.

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What is he opera about so that we can understand the issue better?

Ned

[Buck Birdseed]

Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt
I am not very fond of the debating trick of asking one's opponent to define their terms all the time, but in this case I would really like to know what you mean by "multi-culturalism". I have no problem with multi-ethnicity. If by multi-culturalism you simply mean multi-ethnicity, you'd better use the correct word. However, if you mean that because of mass immigration of Muslims, my country should compromise on matters like democracy, secularism, freedom of speech, equality of men and women, I simply don't agree.

The opera Aisha, to be staged in our largest cities, was cancelled because of objections and threats by Muslims. I think that's a bloody shame.

As I see it, the dominant culture in a society weilds a lot of power. By "Multi-culturalism", I mean that power in society should be shared between different cultures. There is absolutely nothing in the idea that'll stop basic constitutional provisions for freedom.

Naw, what you're blathering is a variant ot the "They'll come here and have goats in their living rooms and rape our women" anti-immigrant scaremongering, which is what right-wing populists usually thrive on. Write up the ridiculously unfounded fear of foreigners and you've got yourself a voter base of ignorami.

[Imran Siddiqui]

and there have been a good number of political assasination attempts in the states.

King, Kennedy (two), Reagan (attempt), Wallace.... That's 5 in the last century. Do you know of any others in the last 100 years?

I would consider this to be the case, yes. Almost every succesful "communist" regime has been right-wing on every issue except working class power, and even there most cases are highly suspect.

You are like Bezerker, only reversed who everyone else is.

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Democracy is not solved by guns and blood, but votes. Unfortunetly some idiot in the Netherlands didn't think so.

[Mercator]

I presume you mean Aida, Oldenbarnevelt? Which hopefully also answers your question, Ned.

*EDIT*

[Saint Marcus]

I second that

don't think I've ever felt so Dutch before...

Indeed

Pim Fortuyn, 6 May 2002, we will never forget.

[Saint Marcus]

King, Kennedy (two), Reagan (attempt), Wallace.... That's 5 in the last century. Do you know of any others in the last 100 years?

Bush sr by the Iraqis.

And Bush jr (wasn't the last plane meant to hit the white house?)

Martin Luther King, though he wasn't a politician, his movement did had political influence. Same, in a lesser degree, Malcom X.