Alexander the great was gay? Backlash stirring in U.S. over gay film

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Kaak


Just a couple of points of fact...There were female prostitutes at the Symposia, and GREEKS DID NOT ENGAGE IN HOMOSEXUAL ANAL SEX... Every scholar I've ever heard talk about it said that the "sex" was just between the thighs, NOT penetrating any orrifices.

Hmmm... I'm fairly sure there are a few black figure vases in the British Museum that would seem to contradict that assumption.


Of course, it does make one wonder exactly how these scholars 'know' that it was simply male-male intercrural sex, rather than penetrative sex. I don't think any of them can claim to have had ringside seats....

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
It was not considered child molestation in ancient Greece. It was perfectly normal. The boys and men were even encouraged to have sex.

I don't know about female prostitutes attending Symposia. I guess it was also possible. The main issue was that a sex object had to attend the evening if it were to be any fun.

By boy, you mean "youth".

Get it right and please stop making BAMs about stuff you seem to know nothing about.

Just a couple of points of fact...There were female prostitutes at the Symposia, and GREEKS DID NOT ENGAGE IN HOMOSEXUAL ANAL SEX... Every scholar I've ever heard talk about it said that the "sex" was just between the thighs, NOT penetrating any orrifices.

Yes they did. You are right in that being the passive partner in anal sex was seen as degrading, and any eromenos who allowed it was seen as disgusting - in that context intercrural sex was the norm. On the other hand, Greek male prostitutes allowed themselves to be penetrated.

[Agathon]

I don't think any of them can claim to have had ringside seats....

Oh Molly....

[Ljube]

You seem to know much more about this than I do. I'm always fascinated to learn something new about history.

[Agathon]

Read Kenneth Dover's book about Greek Homosexuality. That has long been considered the standard text.

If you read a lot of Plato, you get used to the gayness.

[Jon Miller]

I beleive that both were practised

Jon Miller

[Lefty Scaevola]

Some other nationality seems to be having more of a hissy fit about it than the USA.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004111912090002191970&dt=20041119120900&w=RTR&coview=

[Last Conformist]

That was rather expected, wasn't? I think the Greeks, ironically, are the most homophobic people in the EU today.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

"We cannot come out and say that (former U.S.) President John F. Kennedy was a shooting guard for the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team and so Warner cannot come out and say Alexander was gay," Varnakos said.

Anybody seen paitkis lately?

[Lefty Scaevola]

He is stuck between some guy's thighs.

[Shi Huangdi]

The reaction in Hellas:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004111912090002191970&dt=20041119120900&w=RTR&coview=

[quote]
RPT-Outraged Greeks say Alexander was not bisexual


ATHENS, Nov 19 (Reuters) - A group of Greek lawyers are threatening to sue Warner Bros film studios and Oliver Stone, director of the widely anticipated film "Alexander," for suggesting Alexander the Great was bisexual.

The lawyers have already sent an extrajudicial note to the studio and director demanding they include a reference in the title credits saying his movie is a fictional tale and not based on official documents of the life of the Macedonian ruler.

"We are not saying that we are against gays but we are saying that the production company should make it clear to the audience that this film is pure fiction and not a true depiction of the life of Alexander," Yannis Varnakos, who spearheads the campaign by 25 lawyers, told Reuters on Friday.

Stone was quoted on the MSNBC.com Web Site as telling the upcoming edition of Playboy magazine that the film's depiction of Alexander could offend some.

"We go into his bisexuality. It may offend some people, but sexuality in those days was a different thing," he was quoted as saying.

While the film starring Colin Farrell and Angelina Jolie will be released on Nov. 24, Varnakos said he has already gathered enough information regarding the content of the movie to suggest there are "inappropriate references."

"We have not seen the film but from the information we have already there are references to his alleged homosexuality, a fact that is in no historical document or archive on Alexander," he said. "Either they make it clear that this is a work of fiction or we will take the case further."

This is not the first time Greeks have been angered by suggestions Alexander was homosexual and had affairs with young men.

Two years ago hundreds of northern Greeks from the province of Macedonia, where he was born, stormed an archaeological symposium after one speaker presented a paper on the homosexuality of Alexander. Police were called in to evacuate the participants.

One of the greatest military leaders of all time, Alexander, who was never defeated in battle, conquered about 90 percent of the then-known world before his mysterious death at the age of 32, building an empire that stretched from the Mediterranean to Afghanistan.

Varnakaos said as Stone has the right to freely express himself, the audience should have the right to know.

"We cannot come out and say that (former U.S.) President John F. Kennedy was a shooting guard for the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team and so Warner cannot come out and say Alexander was gay," Varnakos said. [/quote

[Agathon]

Why don't they add that he was an alcoholic?

Greeks have been making excuses about his drinking fits since Plutarch.

[Alexander's Horse]

This will be controversial in the backward parts of the world - Greece, the Middle East and the USA.

[Kropotkin]

It all happened about 2000 years ago. How on earth can any Greek think they have any intellectual property over it?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
This will be controversial in the backward parts of the world - Greece, the Middle East and the USA.