Alexander the great was gay? Backlash stirring in U.S. over gay film

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Diss: History shows that a movie makes less money when it DOESN'T hold to the actual story. If Alexander did not have relationships with men in this movie, it would make even less than with the relationships.

[MikeH]

This should be called:

"HOLLYWOOD FILM FOUND TO HAVE POTENTIAL HISTORICAL ACCURACY!! WORLD IN SHOCK!!!"

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Goddamnit. I wanted to watch that specific part.

**** **** ****

I guess it'll be there in the DVD at least...

Come on Kitty, you should know better than to trust Asher's veracity when it comes to facts, especially after I'd already corrected him...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sikander
Um, no it didn't.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Come on Kitty, you should know better than to trust Asher's veracity when it comes to facts, especially after I'd already corrected him...

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1320095,00.html

Puppet oral sex goes against grain for US censors

Staff and agencies
Tuesday October 5, 2004

The latest feature film from the creators of South Park is facing the box office kiss of death NC-17 rating because of a scene showing simulated oral sex between marionettes.

The makers of Team America: World Police have reportedly gone to great lengths, modifying the offending scene nine times for submission to the Motion Picture Association of America, the US film classification authority. They are keen to secure an R rating, which would allow under-18s to see the film when accompanied by an adult.

The makers, directors Matt Stone and Trey Parker and producer Scott Rudin, are contesting the MPAA classification, saying that the film doesn't show anything that's not been seen before in other R-rated movies. And besides, Rudin told the Hollywood Reporter, "our characters are made of wood and have no genitalia. If the puppets did to each other what we show them doing, all they'd get is splinters."

A resolution to this dispute is particularly urgent because the film-makers are contractually obliged to deliver an R-rated film for release by October 15, but the film is scheduled for sneak previews this coming weekend.

Stone and Parker are no strangers to ratings wrangles - their 1999 film South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut was also the subject of a very long and public battle with the MPAA, but ultimately got an R rating.

Parker pointed to the differences between the MPAAs treatment of simulated violence and simulated sex. Team America features violent scenes in which a Tim Robbins puppet is set on fire and a Susan Sarandon puppet is dropped off a 20-story building - all acts that passed MPAA muster.

"We blow Janeane Garofalo's head clean off, [but for the MPAA] it's all about the positions of the dolls having sex," Parker said. "It's not funny - it's tragic."

http://www.madblast.com/view.cfm?type=Feature&display=3165

Team America: World Police is already getting the buzz for skewering politics and celebrities in the action movie spoof starring marionettes. But the biggest story is the graphic sex scene between two puppets that was the sticking point of the MPAA. A very graphic version of the scene still exists, but there was more that director Trey Parker and producer Matt Stone cut out.

“The sex scene was basically more than twice as long,” Parker said. “It was great.”

Stone added, “They loved each other very much.”

Puppet makers the Chiodo brothers had never explored puppet sex before, and were game to tarnish their reputations in the puppet community by catering to the South Park guys’ wishes.

“It was interesting because Matt and Trey had done an animatic with the GI Joe and Barbie dolls and then we tried to duplicate that,” Stephen Chiodo said. “So we had rehearsals bringing in our puppeteers to do positions. We had to rig them in certain positions to make sure we could get those poses. And we learned a lot of interesting things, like a pile drive and a salad.”

Click to Visit
Charlie Chiodo added, “Things that I had never seen before. And it’s funny. Some of those puppeteers that had been doing this for 20-30 years, they stepped out of that. They didn’t want to do that.”

Making marionettes do any kind of action was difficult and time consuming throughout the film, but for the all important lovemaking session, Parker had to get hands on. “Trey is a great director but he could not direct some of the nuances he wanted,” Edward Chiodo said. “So while we were doing these scenes, he grabbed the puppet and said, ‘No, I want it like this.’ And he was doing it.”

“He was up there joyfully performing it,” Charlie added.

One thing Parker was careful about was not to make the puppets too lifelike. Parker recalled, “The puppet guys were even like, ‘Look, we put little pubic hair on them.’ We’re like, ‘No, no, don’t want to do that. We just want them to be little dolls.’”

The brothers found that that added a bit of innocence to the R-rated tryst. “The puppets have no genitalia expect the breasts,” said Edward.

“There is no male genitalia,” Stephen added. “It’s like they’re Barbie and Ken dolls, so again, it’s nothing more than all kids have seen before and it's not a kids movie anyway.”

Adding such details like genetalia would have ruined the humor. “The more realistic it became, the less funny it was,” Stephen said. “The more axes of movement, the more lifelike movement we gave the puppets during the sex scene, it just wasn’t funny. But when you had them stiff like dolls, kind of rutting, it just was funny.”

According to the brothers, a realistic sex scene could have been constructed with puppets had the filmmakers wanted that tone. “We had fully articulated faces that could give the whole range of emotions,” Charlie said. “And we said, ‘Do you want the eyes closed, do you want them moaning?’ [They said,] ‘No, keep the eyes open.’”

The full scene should be included on the DVD release, but it will be released theatrically in foreign markets “just because that would be great,” Parker said. “That would just point something out, that America is the only country that can’t see the whole puppet sex scene and every other country, in Australia and the UK.”

Having fought the MPAA before, Parker expected this to be the central controversy. “I knew the whole time,” he said. “[Some people thought], ‘Well, maybe they won’t have a problem with it?’ I was like, ‘No, I’ve been through this before. They are going to totally have a problem with it.’”

Even collaborator Stone thought they might get away with the scene. “I didn’t think they would [care],” Stone said. “I was wrong.”

However, the most disgusting scenes, including scat and golden shower practices, were only shot with the intention of being cut as a concession to the MPAA. Parker does not even wish to include them in foreign or DVD releases.

“There were some fluid scenes, yes, but those we put in specifically to be cut out,” Parker said. “We shot shots knowing that they would want something to bargain with. We shot shots knowing that we wouldn’t even want them in the movie, just for them to take out.”

Ultimately, the Chiodo brothers are proud to have the scene in a film. “Pushing the envelope is making puppets do things you normally haven’t seen before,” Stephen said. “I think having a love scene with puppets is really pretty brilliant. And again, it’s more of a parody on the film Armageddon where you’ve got in the midst of all this drama and tragedy, you’ve got these two people falling in love and having sex. So it’s really a love making scene as the guys as the guys have talked about it. And they just push it further and further until you see puppets do things you've never seen puppets do before.”

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,15106,00.html

R Sex for "Team America" Puppets

by Bridget Byrne
Oct 8, 2004, 2:40 PM PT

The Team America: World Police wooden puppets' sex scenes have been chipped down to an R rating.

After what has been, reportedly, lengthy dickering and bickering Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the South Park creators responsible for this cheekily politically incorrect marionette action spoof, and the Motion Picture Association of America watchdogs, who sets ratings guidelines, reached an edit compromise.

The R rating makes the non PC movie more legitimately accessible to the youth audience than the ultra restrictive, box-office poison, NC-17 rating that bars anyone under 17, originally slapped on the Paramount satire, which is being promoted with the advertising tagline "Putting the 'F' back in Freedom."

However the final edit doesn't make the filmmakers entirely happy. Stone is quoted as saying, "The puppets did make love for about three and half minutes, now it's just a cheap one-night stand."

The puppets were not anatomically correct and the filmmakers say they were not used any differently the kids might when playing with dolls.

"It's something we all did as kids with Barbie and Ken dolls. ... The whole joke of it is that it's just two dolls flopping around on each other. You see the hinges on their legs," Parker told the Los Angeles Times.

Producer Scott Rudin says that at least nine edits of the puppet love scene were shown to the MPAA before the board accepted that it had been toned down enough to qualify for an R, which requires anyone under 17 to be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian. The Restricted tag warning says the rating is for "graphic, crude and sexual humor, violent images and strong language, all involving puppets."

"There's nothing we're asking for that hasn't appeared in other R-rated movies, and our characters are made of wood," Rudin told the Times during the struggle to find a compromise.

The final decision was reached Tuesday just in time for the outrageous comedy's sneak preview in 800 theaters this weekend, prior to its October 15 opening nationwide.

The movie, lampooning the action genre, features international cops trying to stop a rogue dictator, in the guise of North Korea's Kim Jong-Il, from selling weapons of mass destruction to terrorists. The MPAA viewing police apparently also weren't happy with a scene that shows WMD inspector Hans Blix eaten by the dictator's sharks. The film also includes a sequence in which Hollywood liberal Susan Sarandon is dropped from a skyscraper and her equally political partner Tim Robbins is set on fire.

But Parker says nevertheless it was the puppet sex that the MPAA saw as a much bigger no-no than any of the violence.

Paramount had hoped for an R rating and a spokesperson said the studio was "happy" it had been achieved. The MPAA didn't return a phone call seeking comment.

See, the US version was castrated due to ratings.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes he did.

if that's not in the film, I will be very pissed.

[Dis]

they blow jeaneane garofolo's head clean off?

I have to see this movie. Anyone see it? Is it good?

[Hot Mustard]

Is it just me, or are both Troy and Alexander lame efforts to tap into Gladiator's success?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by dejon
Is it just me, or are both Troy and Alexander lame efforts to tap into Gladiator's success?

Of course. In much the same way that all 'Alien' themed films and 'Predator' themed films operate in much the same way.


Find a winning formula and wait for the talentless hacks to start churning out the production line monstrosities- one of the best modern film noirs in recent years is 'The Last Seduction'- and one of the worst films I have seen is 'The Last Seduction 2' which is so laughably bad, I thought at first it might have been a parody or a comedy, but alas it wasn't.


There is however one proviso- one should remember that Alexander of Macedon was of course an historical figure, and was previously played on screen by Richard Burton.

A few weekends ago one of the terrestrial channels in Great Britain showed 'Jason and the Argonauts' in which Hera was played by the statuesque and very British (and blonde) Honor Blackman, and Zeus by the very Greek sounding Niall McGinnis, begorrah.

Naturally this was well before British actors were routinely villains (every American film since the 1980s it seems) and this was before the Greeks of ancient times were depicted with anything approaching realism (" Welcome to Macedonia, Aryan nation of uberblondes and heterosexuals only....").


Poor Mr. Farrell- he looks as though he should be starring in a film about West Hollywood hairdressers having a great time on All Hallows' Eve.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dissident
they blow jeaneane garofolo's head clean off?

I have to see this movie. Anyone see it? Is it good?

It's hilarious.

[Ljube]

All Greek men were gay. They maintained homosexual relationships before marriage. It was customary for an adult man to have a teenage boyfriend.

When married, they practiced homosexual sex through a device called Syposium. Symposia were basically all men parties where people would get together, talk, drink, have fun and have a young boy (15 or so) attend the second part of the evening as guest of honour. They would then have sex with this boy.

[Agathon]

When married, they practiced homosexual sex through a device called Syposium.

Uh... no. Symposia were just drinking parties and were frequently attended by female prostitutes.

Saying that Symposia were universally concerned with child molestation is simply wrong.

Where did you get this crap?

[Ljube]

It was not considered child molestation in ancient Greece. It was perfectly normal. The boys and men were even encouraged to have sex.

I don't know about female prostitutes attending Symposia. I guess it was also possible. The main issue was that a sex object had to attend the evening if it were to be any fun.

[Q Classic]

the chiodo brothers? if killer clowns from outer space fame?

[Kaak]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
It was not considered child molestation in ancient Greece. It was perfectly normal. The boys and men were even encouraged to have sex.

I don't know about female prostitutes attending Symposia. I guess it was also possible. The main issue was that a sex object had to attend the evening if it were to be any fun.

Just a couple of points of fact...There were female prostitutes at the Symposia, and GREEKS DID NOT ENGAGE IN HOMOSEXUAL ANAL SEX... Every scholar I've ever heard talk about it said that the "sex" was just between the thighs, NOT penetrating any orrifices.

[Ljube]

I agree.