Alexander the great was gay? Backlash stirring in U.S. over gay film

[Q Classic]

And what does the film "trash" about his reputation?

well, obviously the reputation of alexander being straight, and therefore, a heroic figure.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't see the point of labelling him "good" or "bad" - it really makes little sense to apply modern morality to a situation that couldn't ever exist in the modern world anyway. The important thing is that he was great.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I wonder if the Bantu ever did.

Never heard of the Xhosa invasion of 1764?

[Kuciwalker]

sorry, forgot about that

[Ned]

Well, on second thought, if the film is trying to be as accurate as possible about the man, bravo. It just seems that there is a lot of controversy about this one issue.

Now Hadrian was also known to have a "special" friend. Did that make him gay? Was it possible to have a "close" male friend without having a sexual relationship at that time in history?

I have also heard similar stories about Julius Caesar.

[Boris Godunov]

Um, they WERE Roman Emperors, so I wouldn't doubt it. Having male lovers wasn't uncommon in Rome, either.

The "controversy" is one of certain Greeks being idiots. There is no doubt among historians that Alexander and Hephastion were physical lovers in addition to being lifelong friends. They even remained lovers well past the point where, as was customary, Alexander should have gone on to focus foremost on his family life as a husband and father and even taken his own younger male lover.

[Alexander's Horse]

That article above is just hype for the film - we do have a very good idea of how an Alexandrian Macedonian army fought its battles - from its armaments and equipment. We know why chariots didn't work against heavy infantry. They couldn't be driven into a mass of bodies in close formation. We know what Macedonian lances were for - to knock other cavalry off their horses, not to skewer infantry.

The phalanx for example was employed by all Greek armies. The use of pike was revived in the 16th century and modern historical societies have recreated battles. The result is big messy clumps of men who trample opponents.

One interesting observation from reenactments is that ancient battles were much more about pushing over or scattering your opponent than elaborate sword fighting. The sword was used to stab opponents on the ground who had fallen.

[Ned]

It looks like Stone is in for some criticism from military historians too.

[Last Conformist]

When last did an historical movie involving battles not get skewered by indignant military historians?

[Alexander's Horse]

There are few movie recreations which try to be accurate - the main reason is real battle is not as spectacular as choreographed Hollywood style battle.

For example, battle involves a lot of sitting around - one British general compared it to a duck shoot - in one corner there is shooting, you can hear it but you can't see it, the rest of the field, nothing is happening.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Regarding Alexander the Great's sexual preferences:

Originally posted by Seeker
He did it with his HORSE? Are you sure??

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes he did.

/me now understands WHY AH chose his nick.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned
Well, on second thought, if the film is trying to be as accurate as possible about the man, bravo. It just seems that there is a lot of controversy about this one issue.

Now Hadrian was also known to have a "special" friend. Did that make him gay? Was it possible to have a "close" male friend without having a sexual relationship at that time in history?

I have also heard similar stories about Julius Caesar.

Since the modern definition of a sexual identity didn't exist this is a fatuous line of investigation at best.

Hadrian's love, both emotional and physical for his Bithynian friend Antinous isn't even a matter of dispute.

Alexander's love for Hephaestion, as with the love of Achilles and Patroclus, never used to excite such frenzied and anachronistic denials.

Then along came Judaeo-Christianity, and oh my, what a falling off there was....

This has led to such ludicrous revisionism as modern day Greeks denying outright what is a matter of fact and not speculation- even attempting to brush over the polymorphous sexuality of Greek mythical figures, such as Herakles, Apollo, and Zeus.

Which is just a trifle difficult, given that for instance Zeus in myth is said to have transformed himself into an eagle in order to snatch a human boy whose beauty he was besotted with, in order to have the said boy, Ganymede, perform intimate services for him.

Then of course there's all those inconvenient examples of graffiti, the black figure vases and poetry, both lyric and dramatic and the philosophical disquisitions on the superior nature of male-male love, both emotional and physical to that which existed between men and women in Ancient Greece.

Still, bigots have never been ones to let minor inconveniences such as facts get in the way of denials and rants.

I suggest you look at the Symposium Scene painted by the Hegesiboulos Painter, the work of the Brygos Painter (specifically Man and Youth Initiating Intercrural Intercourse) and read Vitruvius on what the Macedonian architect Dincrates is said to have done in order to be awarded a contract by Alexander.

These are of course but a few of the many examples I could cite.

Stripping naked, oiling oneself and then dressing as Herakles is presumably not the way I. M. Pei or Norman Foster went about getting their commissions but it seems to have attracted the interest or notice of Alexander, for then Dinocrates went on to design the most enduring of the cities named after his emperor- Alexandria.

[Alexander's Horse]

Its also important to understand that ancient Greeks did not link sex to reproduction - they linked it to pleasure. So one might express one's feeling sexually to either male or female - its not even clear what we might call sex was considered sex as far as the homosexual or heterosexual side was concerned. This distinction was meaningless in ancient Greek culture - rather like buggery being an initiation ritual in English public schools - those involved did not consider themselves gay or doing a homosexual act.

Macedonians from Alexander's period believed babies were brought by the wind and horses had something to do with it, but I forget what - read Professor Lane Fox's book, he mentions it.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ned
It just seems that there is a lot of controversy about this one issue.

you're observant

[Alexander's Horse]

One interesting consequence of the ancient ignorance of reproductive biology was it was quite plausible for Alexander to believe he was the son of Zeus, similarly for Jesus to believe he was the son of God.